World of Yetobe

[The Shadow]

The inimitable SuentisPo and I have been working on a new campaign world, and I thought I'd share what we've got so far. Basically, our Star Wars game is stalled due to schedule conflicts with the other player, so we thought we'd start a solo game (something we've done before with great success) to fill in the chinks.

We decided we wanted a medievalish fantasy world... but to leave D&D stereotypes as far behind as we could. To create a world more organically "True20" than my own Terrima (which has changed a lot, but still shows its roots), with its own unique feel. Input, especially on mechanics, is welcome!

The sources of inspiration we've drawn on thus far in include the "Winter of the World" series by Michael Scott Rohan, "God Stalk" by P. C. Hodgell, an as-yet-unpublished novel called "Crosstown" by a dear friend named Loren Cooper (look him up on Amazon!), and a series we've both forgotten the name and author of. :)

For starters, we decided to adopt the Spirits from my Two New Creature Types thread. (Whether or not we'll use Powers is still a subject of debate. If we do, though, they'll undergo a change of name, as we have decided that really powerful Spirits - the godlike ones - are known as Powers.)

From the Winter of the World, we take the idea that the Powers of the world have always been around, but have attained full awareness and personality only with the advent of mankind. The oldest Powers are the embodiments of physical forces; others arose with the advent of life; yet others only with humanity and even civilization. The Powers are not agreed on whether or not human life, or human civilization, or even life itself, is a good thing. Needless to say, this is a source of conflict!

The spirits "live" in the collective subconscious, which long predates humanity itself, though it became much more active and complex with life and now sapient beings. The origin of humanity is a mystery we are not choosing to explore, though of course people in the campaign world have all sorts of theories.

More posts to follow with details!

[The Shadow]

Magic

Mysticism: There are three basic kinds of "magic". The first, and perhaps the most ancient, is Wis-based. It is usually called "mysticism" and its practicioners "mystics". (The only culture-neutral appropriate term we could find... if you can think of a better one, let us know!) In some places, mystics are instead known as "wise (wo)men" or "witches". In some cultures mystics are common - every village has one. In others, mysticism is the province of sages and philosophers, who sometimes get a bit snooty about it.

Mysticism draws on the power buried within the human psyche, discovered and drawn forth by meditation and self-exploration. Most mystic powers affect the self or the minds of others, not the physical world, though they do get Manipulate Object, and probably the Cure powers. (Probably not Move Object.) They don't get flashy elemental powers at all.

Thus far, we are saying that Mystics get the Talent (limited to mystic powers only) and make Fort saves vs. Fatigue - it's draining to use mysticism, as you have to draw on your own reserves. Though their power set is a bit limited, they also lack the restrictions the other kinds of magic have.

Mysticism is mostly a matter of training, though we are likely going to make it possible to be a "natural". This might just be taking Body Control or Mind Touch or a similar basic power as a background power, or we may come up with a feat called "Aware" or "Centered" or the like.

Spiritualism: Not a name we like, if you can think of a better one let us know! It's really a catch-all term for three very different approaches to the same basic path to power: Spirits.

Spiritualists (for lack of a better term), employ Spirits to get supernatural things done. But there are three basic (and mostly incompatible) ways you can employ them. You can bind them; you can make deals with them; or you can bind *yourself* to them. We'll get to that in a minute.

All forms of "Spiritualism" are Cha-based. How exactly they are handled depends on just how much detail the Narrator wants to put into Spirits. The Spirits can just be an explanation for how powers work - fluff text, basically, with some mechanics to give it a little bite. Or, each of an adept's powers can have a spirit behind it with personality and motivations of its own. Or anything in between.

Whichever, the powers of these adepts are vulnerable to things that affect spirits. If you banish the spirit behind an adept's Mind Touch power, he just plain can't use Mind Touch until he fixes what you did. (Or makes an arrangement with another, similar spirit.) In some cases, several powers might be through a single, more powerful spirit - harder to banish, but also with better results if you do.

For Spiritualists, gaining new powers is usually a matter of a quest, or sometimes of opportunism. :) (Finding a new spirit on an adventure.) Though they can go looking for spirits of an appropriate type, they can't just sit down and say, "I think I'll learn Heart Shaping this level," and leave it at that, unless the Narrator is feeling both kind and lazy. :)

We have tentatively decided that these guys do have some mental powers they can use on their own - only powers that work only on spirits, though. So they can Mind Touch and Dominate and even Mind Shape spirits - but not people. (Oh, and Spiritualists often have Second Sight, to see and deal with spirits.)

We have also decided that most Spiritualists can't interact with ghosts - the souls of dead people. Now, if you tap into the "spirit of my clan", it may manifest with the face of your dead grandpa, but it isn't really him - and this is known and expected in many, but not all, cultures. However, there is a feat called Necromancy which lets someone affect actual dead people as spirits, and some Spiritualists specialize in it. They are, needless to say, greatly despised and feared in most places. (If someone wants to *only* be a Necromancer, they don't need the feat. They're going to have enough problems without paying a feat slot! Plus, few souls grant the more flashy powers, unlike full-blown Spirits.)

The Core Ability of Spiritualists is still up in the air, though it is definitely *not* the Talent, except perhaps for the Chosen. (See below.)

People who are "naturals" for becoming Spiritualists generally take Second Sight as a background power. We are also going to create a "Spirit Affinity" feat which makes spirits more receptive to you.

Sorcery: As mentioned, there are three ways to approach Spiritualism. They are so different that the people of the world mostly regard them as three entirely different things, though mechanically they're similar. The first way is sorcery. This involves binding spirits to do your bidding. They mostly hate you, of course, and will rebel if you lower your guard. We are still working out how this works (suggestions welcome), but perhaps your spells misfire badly if you fail your Fatigue save. (Which might not really be a Fatigue save any more.)

Animism/Shamanism: We're not really happy with either name. The first really describes religious beliefs which adepts of this type are admittedly likely to have, but not really their magic. The second is not culturally neutral enough. It works for some areas, but not others.

Anyway, these guys make deals with spirits - there's a quid pro quo which goes on. Often this will take the form of taboos; seemingly irrational restrictions on the adept's behavior which the spirits call for. Other times these deals can be useful as Narrator quest-fodder. "If you would learn Heart Shaping of me, you must bring me... a shrubbery!" :)

The Chosen: Our working name thus far; it probably isn't universal in the campaign world. Basically, some mighty spirits have set themselves up as gods. (And they're mostly powerful enough that not many people are willing to tell them they're wrong. :) Binding one of these guys is out of the question for any but epic, legendary sorcerers; and they are likewise far out of the league of animists in terms of deal-making. But there are some who bind *themselves* to such a spirit. Such are seen as uncanny at best even by the devout; in effect one becomes a minor avatar of the spirit in question.

The Chosen may actually have the Talent, restricted to powers their patron chooses (or is able) to grant. Their powers are entirely at the whim of their patrons, who can remove them at any time. Such spirits generally have an elaborate ethos and way of life they expect of their Chosen, of course. Often Chosen have some particular mission, as well: one is called to do some particular deed, though it may be an open-ended one.

Your average priest is not a Chosen. (Though I suppose it's possible that some deities would want all of their priests to be.) This is more like D&D paladinhood than anything, though Chosen don't have to be martial at all, and certainly don't have to be "good".

Wizardry: Wizardry probably arose from Mysticism, especially the snootier intellectual practicioners. Basically, in delving down within their own consciousness, they learned how to tap into the collective subconscious and draw on the power latent there. The same power that spirits draw upon to do their thing.

Dealing with the collective subconscious directly is not for the faint of heart. It's *sub*conscious for a REASON. To stay sane, wizards make use of elaborate symbol systems (in several competing schools of thought) to organize and mediate their relationship with it. They also invariably bind their power into a physical item. (Which is symbolically stable, predictable, and *separate from the wizard*.) Traditionally this is a staff, but other items are possible. Items that are difficult to remove from the wizard, like rings, are severely limited in how many ranks they can hold - a sneaky wizard might bind most of his spells into his staff, but keep a ring with, say, a few ranks of Teleport in it handy.

Wizardry is Int-based. Spells are elaborate researched and designed, then bound into one's staff or other item. Without his bound items, a wizard is mostly helpless. How helpless is "mostly helpless"? We're still working that out. Certainly if he retains any magic at all, it will be more dangerous. Perhaps their Core Ability is related to this fact?

In theory, a really high level wizard can do without items. For a wizard to deliberately break his staff is a declaration either of hubris or supreme power. Or that you should run away really fast. Possibly all three. :) We will likely come up with a feat chain to support this.

Wizards are often specialized, and congregate in schools of like-minded specialists. They are much more likely to be found in towns than the countryside.

Spirits mostly despise wizards, and many animists have picked this up - wizards draw on the spirits' power source, and they find it uncomfortable. (A wizard's staff, and the sense of order and regimentation it radiates, is especially uncomfortable, even painful, to be around. Like someone who rearranges your whole house and in the process hides the food, car keys, and shower.) Sorcerers, who mostly don't give a flying fart what spirits think, occasionally dabble in wizardry, and vice versa, but it's not common. The Spirits that create Chosen are mostly far above the irritation of wizardry, so their opinion varies from god to god and religion to religion.

All comments are welcome!

[The Shadow]

Religion

We've only just started discussing this. There is an ancient system of animistic belief around, and on top of that there are faiths in various gods. It's vaguely similar to Hinduism that way, though the cultures in question are mostly going to be Western. We're going to try to put our own spin on it.

Hardcore animists see worshipping gods to the exclusion of all the minor spirits as silly, maybe even dangerous. Hardcore theists see animists as superstitious peasants who placate the servant rather than the master. Some may even see it as wrong and sinful. But many people happily combine both belief systems syncretistically. (Note: The designers of the campaign express no opinion either way. We aren't pushing any particular view here. We do have our own strong religious beliefs, but this is a game world.)

In addition, many Mystics (and others) follow a way of life (some might call it a religion, but it's really more of a philosophy) called the Discipline. The Disciples (as followers of the Discipline are called) believe in reincarnation, and seek to attain harmonious perfection in body, mind, and spirit. In a particular life, you might be called upon to develop your body, for example. (And thus will go in for Warrior levels, and powers like Combat Sense.) Mystic Disciples usually focus on one of the three spheres, though there is no rule about this.

The Discipline's ideal is what we would call a Renaissance man - gifted in every conceivable way, completely at home in his body, mind, and soul. What happens then is the subject of debate. Perhaps you will in future lives become a Teacher who shows others how to attain enlightenment. Perhaps you cease to be reborn - or just cease being reborn as a mortal. Perhaps the ideal isn't even really attainable, but is a matter of eternal striving. The Teacher who founded the Discipline (whom we have not yet named, and may possibly never name) may have attained this ideal - or maybe not, different sects of Disciples disagree. For the most part, that's okay... they're pretty tolerant of different views.

The Disciples see wizardry as a deluded side-path, a false way to enlightenment. (Wizards for their part see Disciples, and Mystics in general, as needlessly restricting themselves... putting arbitrary, unnecesary limits on what they can accomplish.) We are still working out what their attitude to spirits is.

[The Shadow]

Races

All races are derived ultimately from humans. When the Powers awoke, they had competing views of how to deal with humans. Some factions decided to remake humans into something more like their own image.

We are still tossing out ideas, but we've firmed up the idea of nomadic raft-dwellers based on the Otterfolk. Also an earth-dwelling race, not entirely unlike dwarves, perhaps based on badgers.

We've also discussed desert-dwelling lizardfolk, an avian race similar to the aarakocra, and shy jungle-dwelling gorilla-folk. The Necrites may exist as either the playthings of a twisted Power, or as the result of a magical experiment gone horribly wrong. (I suppose the Caliban could be worked in too, along similar lines.)

I'm not certain whether we will keep the animal archetypes, or just use them for inspiration. I think the Otterfolk are going to stay otters, but the badger guys might or might not actually *look* like badgers. They'll still be stubborn and unyielding in any event, though, and like to dwell in burrows. (Mining is a later invention with them. They do like delving into stone these days.)

[Father of Dragons]

The inimitable SuentisPo and I have been working on a new campaign world, and I thought I'd share what we've got so far.

The sources of inspiration we've drawn on thus far in include the "Winter of the World" series by Michael Scott Rohan, "God Stalk" by P. C. Hodgell, an as-yet-unpublished novel called "Crosstown" by a dear friend named Loren Cooper (look him up on Amazon!), and a series we've both forgotten the name and author of.

This looks really, really interesting. I'm sorry about not commenting on it earlier, but the sum total of material is rather overwhelming! I've always liked Michael Scott Rohan, thought I prefer his Spiral books to "The Winter of the World" series. P. C. Hodgell is just wonderful -- have you read the other three books (so far) in the series, or any of the short stories? Neat stuff.

For starters, we decided to adopt the Spirits from my Two New Creature Types thread. (Whether or not we'll use Powers is still a subject of debate. If we do, though, they'll undergo a change of name, as we have decided that really powerful Spirits - the godlike ones - are known as Powers.)

I'm glad you're using this -- I thought it was a really cool idea, and it ties the world, monsters and magic together in interesting ways.

Mysticism: There are three basic kinds of "magic". The first, and perhaps the most ancient, is Wis-based. It is usually called "mysticism" and its practicioners "mystics". (The only culture-neutral appropriate term we could find... if you can think of a better one, let us know!)

This word has too many other meanings to be clear as it is used, unless you tie it into the culture so that all of the meanings apply. Right now you seem determined to separate settings and rules, but since you are doing rules for a specific setting, I don't see any real need for that. As they are described, I would think Psychics would be a better description of them than Mystics.

Spiritualism: Not a name we like, if you can think of a better one let us know!

I think this is a pretty unfortunate name, as again, the word already has a meaning: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritualism. Since this is a category, not a profession, a technical term like Pneumatology -- the study of spiritual beings and phenomena, might work. Daemonology would also work, but would probably have unfortunate connotations, too. You could go with a more generic term of "Spirit Mages", which, while not as flavorful, doesn't come with the same baggage.

Animism/Shamanism: We're not really happy with either name. The first really describes religious beliefs which adepts of this type are admittedly likely to have, but not really their magic. The second is not culturally neutral enough. It works for some areas, but not others.

These are great terms for when they work -- very evocotive. I've heard this sort of magic described as "Pact Magic" -- you could make a name based off of this, such as Pacters, or Pact Mages, but they aren't as numinous of names. If it's an old form of magic maybe you could call them Thaumaturges -- miracle workers.

Players being what they are, you'll want to have rules for mixing types of magic, like for someone who starts as a mystic but then discovers wizardry with a side trip to sorcerery!

The Teacher who founded the Discipline (whom we have not yet named, and may possibly never name)

I personally like the idea of him/her simply being called "The Teacher" with their original name lost to history; it sounds more mysterious to me that way.

[The Shadow]

This looks really, really interesting. I'm sorry about not commenting on it earlier, but the sum total of material is rather overwhelming!

Thanks! We're having fun with it. No worries about commenting "late" - better late than never! :)

I've always liked Michael Scott Rohan, thought I prefer his Spiral books to "The Winter of the World" series. P. C. Hodgell is just wonderful -- have you read the other three books (so far) in the series, or any of the short stories? Neat stuff.

Never read (or even heard of) the Spiral series - I'll have to look it up. Certainly I loved "Winter of the World" very much. One rarely comes across a world crafted with such love and care - which makes use of mythology yet has its own unique spin.

"God Stalk" is one of those few-in-a-lifetime books that just sweeps you off your feet. I fell completely in love with Tai-Tastigon. But "Dark of the Moon" did almost nothing for me; it seemed to me that she retreated from almost everything that made the first book interesting and fun. I didn't bother to read the others.

And I reiterate: Check Loren out. (He has three novels and an award-winning collection of short stories out, and two more novels coming out soon.) He's admittedly a good friend of mine, but honestly, his writing is amazing. (I hope he finds a publisher for Crosstown. His existing published stuff, good as it is, is actually his earlier stuff. His latest work is in IMHO even better!)

I'm glad you're using this -- I thought it was a really cool idea, and it ties the world, monsters and magic together in interesting ways.

Thanks. That thread was the fruit of many years of pondering. It's actually a True20ized fragment of a much larger project of mine I've developed off and on for a long time... I call it "Summa Phantastica", and it's basically a unified field theory for fantasy. :)

Mysticism:

This word has too many other meanings to be clear as it is used, unless you tie it into the culture so that all of the meanings apply. Right now you seem determined to separate settings and rules, but since you are doing rules for a specific setting, I don't see any real need for that. As they are described, I would think Psychics would be a better description of them than Mystics.

I think we probably are going to tie it into the culture. Another option I'm toying with for names of these things is developing an equivalent of "Old English" where you can see where words are coming from, but look distinctive and different. (This proves very effective in some books, like Martin's "Game of Thrones" series.) I strongly resist coming up with completely unrecognizable names for such things - it usually comes across to me as pretentious, unless the author in question has a completely thought-out and consistent language to base it on. (Tolkien, take a bow.) That much work I'm not interested in doing.

"Psychic" is descriptive enough, but I would prefer to avoid the firing of all the D&D-ized "psionics" neurons. :)

Spiritualism:

I think this is a pretty unfortunate name, as again, the word already has a meaning: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritualism. Since this is a category, not a profession, a technical term like Pneumatology -- the study of spiritual beings and phenomena, might work. Daemonology would also work, but would probably have unfortunate connotations, too. You could go with a more generic term of "Spirit Mages", which, while not as flavorful, doesn't come with the same baggage.

We're aware of the 19th century permutations of "Spiritualism", and don't much care. :) We mostly dislike the term because it's completely flavorless. It sounds like... well, like something a 19th century English faddist would come up with. :) (I could draw on other examples of the same flavorless naming conventions of the era, but they would probably get me in trouble with the moderators. :)

Pneumatology sounds too theological (in Christian usage it means "the study of the Holy Spirit") and the root "pneuma" has been horribly debased in English. (Pneumatic tires, anyone?)

I hope we don't have to go with something like "Spirit Mages", but we may be forced to it in the end.

Animism/Shamanism:

These are great terms for when they work -- very evocotive. I've heard this sort of magic described as "Pact Magic" -- you could make a name based off of this, such as Pacters, or Pact Mages, but they aren't as numinous of names. If it's an old form of magic maybe you could call them Thaumaturges -- miracle workers.

We've also considered using "sorcery" as a generic term. (Barring the Chosen, who are generally seen as quite distinct.)

Players being what they are, you'll want to have rules for mixing types of magic, like for someone who starts as a mystic but then discovers wizardry with a side trip to sorcerery!

Granted. However, the "shamans" are unlikely to have anything to do with wizardry, many Chosen won't either, and the mindset of mystics is very different from the other two. (They have to spend a lot of time in navel-gazing, too.) The only combination which seems terribly likely is wizard/sorcerer.

The Teacher who founded the Discipline (whom we have not yet named, and may possibly never name)

I personally like the idea of him/her simply being called "The Teacher" with their original name lost to history; it sounds more mysterious to me that way.

I'm leaning this way myself. I have a feeling he said to the first Disciples, "Names are not important; only Discipline is important. I am your Teacher, and that is all." I have a sneaking suspicion he might actually have become physically immortal, too, which means he might still be out there somewhere...

[Father of Dragons]

Never read (or even heard of) the Spiral series - I'll have to look it up. Certainly I loved "Winter of the World" very much. One rarely comes across a world crafted with such love and care - which makes use of mythology yet has its own unique spin.

The books in the Spiral series are: Chase the Morning, The Gates of Noon, and Cloud Castles. They are set in the Spiral, a universe centered on our mundane world, but spreading out from it were anything or everything is possible. Technology is hard to maintain on the Spiral, so it is mostly limited to early steam. But magic can be strong there ... It'd make a great True20 setting, actually.

"God Stalk" is one of those few-in-a-lifetime books that just sweeps you off your feet. I fell completely in love with Tai-Tastigon. But "Dark of the Moon" did almost nothing for me; it seemed to me that she retreated from almost everything that made the first book interesting and fun. I didn't bother to read the others.

Dark of the Moon is the weakest of the series. The third book. Seeker's Mask, is a lot better. It takes place among Jame's people, the Kencyr are an interesting lot. The fourth book, To Ride a Rathorn, is better still (although not quite as much fun as Godstalk).

And I reiterate: Check Loren out. (He has three novels and an award-winning collection of short stories out, and two more novels coming out soon.) He's admittedly a good friend of mine, but honestly, his writing is amazing. (I hope he finds a publisher for Crosstown. His existing published stuff, good as it is, is actually his earlier stuff. His latest work is in IMHO even better!)

I'll have to look him up. At the moment he seems only to have publication via small publishers, which means I'd have order his stuff on-line. If I were to start with one novel, which would you recommend?

Thanks. That thread was the fruit of many years of pondering. It's actually a True20ized fragment of a much larger project of mine I've developed off and on for a long time... I call it "Summa Phantastica", and it's basically a unified field theory for fantasy.

I'd be interested in seeing more of this sometime.

We're aware of the 19th century permutations of "Spiritualism", and don't much care. We mostly dislike the term because it's completely flavorless. It sounds like... well, like something a 19th century English faddist would come up with.

It'd bug me as a player, as the image it would conjour for me would be a bunch of sallow-faced Victorian ladies (and maybe a token gentleman) gathered around an ouije board ...

[The Shadow]

The books in the Spiral series are: Chase the Morning, The Gates of Noon, and Cloud Castles. They are set in the Spiral, a universe centered on our mundane world, but spreading out from it were anything or everything is possible. Technology is hard to maintain on the Spiral, so it is mostly limited to early steam. But magic can be strong there ... It'd make a great True20 setting, actually.

Oh! THAT'S the Spiral series! I have indeed read "Chase the Morning", and liked it a lot, but haven't read the others. Personally I liked "Winter of the World" better - those worlds are so different it's hard to believe they're by the same author!

You're right, the Spiral would make a *great* True20 setting!

Dark of the Moon is the weakest of the series. The third book. Seeker's Mask, is a lot better. It takes place among Jame's people, the Kencyr are an interesting lot. The fourth book, To Ride a Rathorn, is better still (although not quite as much fun as Godstalk).

Hmmm. After this recommend, I may have to give Seeker's Mask a try. And yes, the Kencyr are fascinating.

Dark of the Moon had a weird, dreamlike, impressionist air to it that rubbed me the wrong way. Plus, parts of it felt almost like they were transcripts from someone's tabletop RPG campaign, which can be offputting. (Stephen Brust manages to pull it off, but few others can. And I have the feeling that his stories mutated a lot going from the table to the page, which is only proper.) Prime example: Figuring out the teleport stones around the old temple.

I'll have to look him up. At the moment he seems only to have publication via small publishers, which means I'd have order his stuff on-line. If I were to start with one novel, which would you recommend?

Yes, he - like all new writers these days - is having a really hard time breaking into the New York market, which is where all the mass distribution is. Online is the way to go for now. Hopefully someday that will change.

It's hard to know what to recommend. I'll just briefly describe his existing books, and you can decide.

The Lives of Ghosts, and Other Stories is his collection of short stories. It won the Eppie for best short story collection on the Web in 2001, IIRC. A really wide and deep range of stories; if you like shorts, you'll probably like this. I know some people don't, though. Personally I think his short stories are his best writing. The ones in this book span the range from fantasy to (not very hard) SF. He especially favors stories that mix the two in head-twisting ways. Those are my favorites too.

A Slow and Silent Stream is in my opinion his finest early work. The reviews on Amazon suggest that people either love this book to pieces or hate it with a fiery hatred - nobody seems to be neutral. (The main reviewer there just plain did not get the structure of the way he did things - others did - which influenced her opinion a lot.)

It's a fantasy, set in a world wracked with war and intrigue. It's basically a coming-of-age story for a young man of a minor noble house, who has to make some really hard decisions as war breaks out and his lands are annexed by a larger kingdom. Things... go very badly, but in very interesting ways. :) Things are also complicated by the fact that he has some magical abilities that many people in the annexing kingdom don't entirely approve of...

The Gates of Sleep is a gritty near-future SF tale about an industrial spy who is also a lucid dreamer... and finds that his dreams lead him into a fantastic land of dreams. He gets embroiled in conspiracies spanning both worlds; chapters alternate between him skulking around and figuring things out in the "real world", then dealing with the other level of things in his dreams. Great fun!

A Separate Power is a little hard to sum up. Basically it's a fantasy set in a land troubled by wandering spirit-like beings who are alien in mindset and sometimes inimical to humans. Some people retreat behind magically-created barriers and ignore the problem (and those in the hinterlands without such protection), but two men set out to do something, to change the balance of power. Things... again go rather spectacularly wrong, but in interesting ways. :) The tale spans several decades and is full of plot twists and sneakiness. Nobody's the same in the end.

The two protagonists both have apparently unique (in their world) powers: One is a warrior who has an innate connection to the wind, and the other is an artist (and reluctant convert to the cause) who is the only person who can make "soulsteel" - a substance which can harm the spirits.

Loren's got two books coming out next year called The Way of the Wolf and a sequel the name of which I forget at the moment. His first novels, these are the closest thing he's ever written to "ordinary" fantasy. :) They both deal with a college dropout who gets sucked into a fantasy world and has to cope. Helped along the way by a trickster spirit-wolf he dubs "Harvey". (Harvey is, of course, less than pleased with the origin of his name. :)

I am restraining myself by main force from describing two of his unpublished novels, Crosstown and And High Heaven in loving detail. :) Suffice to say that Crosstown is the adventures of a sorcerer (in the sense of this thread) in a town spanning multiple dimensions of the multiverse. And that in And High Heaven, the protagonists are einherjar, Norse spirits of the slain who battle in Valhalla in preparation for Ragnarok. Which happens during the book... (I might add that the Norse gods aren't the only game in town, but that Ragnarok is just as decisive for Celtic and Sumerian - and all other - pantheons as for the Norse...)

I'd be interested in seeing more of this sometime.

I'll see what I can do. :) The discussion of cosmology on that thread was also a fruit of my "Summa". Or rather an application of it; it's not so much a system for a particular world as a toolbox of components and options you can stick together to make such a system. I try as much as possible to give unified "explanations" of things, which can then be tweaked as desired. (Spirits, Souls, and Powers are a central feature, and there's a few other broad types of critters too. And other subtypes of Powers I didn't bother to get into in the thread.)

Basically, I wanted a coherent, consistent structure that could explain most of what goes on in fantasy novels and legends. Such a structure often yields surprising but interesting new ways to do things if you poke it properly.

It'd bug me as a player, as the image it would conjour for me would be a bunch of sallow-faced Victorian ladies (and maybe a token gentleman) gathered around an ouije board ...

Or having a seance, with all the ectoplasm and voices and everything. :) I hear you, brother. (Hm, brother. Does that make me an "Uncle of Dragons"? :)

But really, I doubt many people in the campaign world lump the three categories together much. The blanket term is mostly for our benefit, so we can discuss them as a unit.

[The Shadow]

Had an idea for names for the "shamans" in different cultures.

For some cultures, it's a religious thing. For these, "shaman" is fine. Varied with terms like "witch doctor", "medicine man", "houngan", or "druid" if desired.

For others, it's a business-like thing. Your town has its spirit-envoy to keep things harmonious with the spirit world, just like it has a healer and a carpenter. It's a prestigious profession - the degree of prestige dependent on the culture - but a secular one. There might even be freelancers - journeymen who can handle things like hauntings, sicknesses, balky or lost animals, and so on for a fee.

For these guys, names meaning things like "envoy", "emissary" and so on are probably used. Looking at thesaurus.com, "mediator", "proxy", "factor" (or even "factotum"), and "advocate" might all be possibilities. Any of the above could have "spirit" appended to it for clarification, of course.

I suspect the profession never goes quite *entirely* secular - there's always an uncanny air hanging over these guys, plus they tend to have weird behavioral quirks - but in some places much more than others.

In some places, sorcerers might hold similar social positions... whether your town spirit-envoy binds spirits or deals with them is more a matter of difference in professional practice with the guy the next town over than anything else. They might argue about it over a beer, but it's not a huge deal. (I suspect that sorcery is regarded as a rather risky way of maintaining harmony, though. That's one of the arguments used by the guy the next town over... On the other hand, his townfolk appreciate the lack of taboos.)

In others, especially where the animist religion is strong, there is a sharp divide between the two, and sorcerers are regarded with contempt or worse.

EDIT: D'oh! I just realized that although "adept" is the name of a role, it could also be a name for a particular subclass of that role. Perhaps that's what "mystics" are called... in that case, "mysticism" would be called something like "the Art". (Or perhaps "wizards" are really "adepts", and then "mystics" become "wizards"? "Wizard" did originally mean "wise man", after all. But no, this feels too unnatural a use of words as presently constituted.)

EDIT: Further playing with thesaurus.com brought up the word "savant", which has a certain appeal too. Might be better as a term for the egghead-type mystics, though.

[The Shadow]

Just had a weird thought... How does one explain the fact that the powers of "spiritualists" go up in rank every level? It seems a bit much to assume that one's spirits would consistently level along with you.

For Chosen, it's no problem: Their patron has an ungodly number of ranks (pardon the pun :), and the Chosen is just growing in his/her ability to channel them. (Hmm, perhaps their Core Ability should be an improved version of Extra Effort? Or something more like asking for a miracle?) Note to self: "Channeller" might be a good generic term for these guys, even if it does have a bit of a "Psychic Network" feel about it. :) If Robert Jordan can use it, so can we.

But for sorcerers and shamans, it's an interesting problem. A Narrator who really wants to get detailed with spirits might make it a nontrivial problem to overcome: You want your power to have more ranks, find a new spirit. Or help the existing one go up levels somehow. But that may well be more effort than the vast majority of Narrators, including SuentisPo, are willing to invest... plus it seems a little unfair. (Or, if one also permits spirits to have *more* ranks than your level would suggest, potentially unbalancing.)

Likewise, how to explain the use of feats like Empower and Widen? It would really make more sense to have the *spirits" buy those feats, not the sorcerer or shaman himself - but again, this doesn't seem fair.

Myself, I'm tempted to go whole hog, and have these guys bind and deal with spirits through powers like Mind Touch, Suggestion, Dominate, and Mind Shaping... Will saves and all. But again, that's more work than I suspect most (and most importantly, SuentisPo - though I hope others will be intrigued by the campaign too, hence this thread) want to do.

I guess you could just say that the spirit in question actually has more ranks than it's using on your behalf... and as you level, you either bind it more firmly or else improve your deals, thereby unlocking more of its power on your behalf? But if it's so much more powerful, how is it being bound by a sorcerer in the first place?

[Malthusian]

I guess you could just say that the spirit in question actually has more ranks than it's using on your behalf... and as you level, you either bind it more firmly or else improve your deals, thereby unlocking more of its power on your behalf? But if it's so much more powerful, how is it being bound by a sorcerer in the first place?

I wouldn't say it's a matter of how powerful the spirit. More likely, it's the frailty of the human body. A novice of the 'spirit arts' isn't going to have the stamina necessary to wield the power granted from the bound spirit. Without more training and experience, channeling the metaphysical becomes a strain on the physical (the mind is willing, but the flesh is weak), thus the Fatigue Saves.

As the Novice moves toward Mastery, his physical body becomes more attuned to the spectral energies, allowing him to channel the energy into more powerful spells.

[The Shadow]

Hmm. A possibility. I had been seeing the practicioner commanding the spirit, and the spirit doing the actual work... but the commanding is doubtless magical in itself, and may cause strain.

[Father of Dragons]

Hmm. A possibility. I had been seeing the practicioner commanding the spirit, and the spirit doing the actual work... but the commanding is doubtless magical in itself, and may cause strain.

One possible way to look at ithe matter that I would think would match True20 rules nicely, is that when spirits perform "powers", they are channelling their powers through the Spirit Mage's body, using there knowledge but her physical resources. Being limited to the mage's body also explains the line of sight range for powers and explains even how the spirit is targeting, since if the spirit was targeting by scrying (as would any of your spirits other than possessors), there would be no such limit on powers' targeting. Maybe the spirits that Spirt Mages (other than Chosen) bind or pact are always of the possessor type? And binding them is a form of "reverse possession" and pacting is a form of "negotiated possession"?

(Hm, brother. Does that make me an "Uncle of Dragons"?

Hmm, well, the Dragons are already well-supplied with mad uncles ... I'm not sure there's an opening right now for another.

[The Shadow]

One possible way to look at ithe matter that I would think would match True20 rules nicely, is that when spirits perform "powers", they are channelling their powers through the Spirit Mage's body, using there knowledge but her physical resources. Being limited to the mage's body also explains the line of sight range for powers and explains even how the spirit is targeting, since if the spirit was targeting by scrying (as would any of your spirits other than possessors), there would be no such limit on powers' targeting. Maybe the spirits that Spirt Mages (other than Chosen) bind or pact are always of the possessor type? And binding them is a form of "reverse possession" and pacting is a form of "negotiated possession"?

Huh! This is different from how I was picturing it at first, but you know, it makes a whole lot of sense. Fits a lot of legendary sources too! (This is pretty much how voudounistas see it as working, as I understand it.)

I still like the idea of a sorcerer (in particular) sending a specific spirit off with a task... but that can perhaps be handled as buying a spirit as a Companion or Minion. Or perhaps that's their Core Ability - freeing up one of their powers to operate independently for a time. (During which time, of course, they can't use it themselves.)

It isn't quite as good as it sounds, because the spirit likely won't be nearly as Familiar with the people and places you want them to interact with as you'd like.

Further, of course, "independent spirit behavior" can just be the in-game explanation of certain powers.

(Hm, brother. Does that make me an "Uncle of Dragons"? :)

Hmm, well, the Dragons are already well-supplied with mad uncles ... I'm not sure there's an opening right now for another. :wink:

Mad? MAD?! They called me mad before, but they shall rue it, rue it I say!! Muahahahahaaaaaaaaa!

...I'm not helping my case any here, am I? :)

[FickleGM]

I would like to chime in with a nice job! I am still looking into how I want magic to work in my world and like some of your spirit ideas. I will be following this thread with my eye on what you are doing with magic.

Good work.