True Force (Star Wars) **UPDATED 09/29/06**

[William1968]

Actually, the stormtroopers were the ground version of the TIE fighters, attacking with intimidation and sheer weight of numbers on their side

Just because it was standard Imperial military doctrine doesn't make it a danged stupid policy.
WW I is full of illustrations of why this is lunacy, yet that's how Lucas decided wars were fought in his galaxy.

Seriously, you'd have to be an idiot or a politician to think that "not taking cover = Good".

Oh, I agree, Vahalla, quite so, but Lucas drew upon WWI, as well as VietNam to some extent, for his Imperial military paradigm for the same reasons...the Empire, like the empires of our world--including the Soviet Union and the United States--were used to fighting enemies incapable of effectively fighting back, modelling their tactics and doctrine accordingly, setting themselves up for one heck of a rude awakening when they ran slap into an enemy who was either tenacious, resourceful, possessing equal technology, bloodthirsty, or any three of the four.

The Rebellion, for example.

Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.

Palpatine--like all hardened politicians--never quite got that...which was why his stormtroopers ended up getting chopped into bantha burgers, his Death Stars both went boom! his Empire went down the tubes, and he ended up getting chucked down the reactor shaft by his apprentice.

[William1968]

Now, back to our regularly scheduled topic.

Had a chance to read the rules, nice, 100% better than the d20 version.

[ValhallaGH]

Now, back to our regularly scheduled topic.

Had a chance to read the rules, nice, 100% better than the d20 version.

Out of curiosity, which set would you be referring to? Ether's fine set of rules or my own not-so-humble attempts?

Though both sets meet that last criteria.

[William1968]

Now, back to our regularly scheduled topic.

Had a chance to read the rules, nice, 100% better than the d20 version.

Out of curiosity, which set would you be referring to? Ether's fine set of rules or my own not-so-humble attempts?

Though both sets meet that last criteria.

At the time, I was referring to Ether's, since I didn't get to yours 'til Tuesday morning(stupid end/first of the month! Stupid 60-hour workweek! Stupid website being down most of the week, so I couldn't reply to your post 'til now!), but the commentary could apply to yours as well.

Especially, the space combat and movement rules...right now, I'm working on the starships, space travel and starship combat rules for my other campaign setting, since for the 2300 one, I'm basically cribbing from the PDF rules and applying the True 20 system to it.(plus my own variations, as much of the 2300 past history was based of Twilight 2000, and that's been superseded twice by world events).

But, that's the story for another thread...back to both your Star Wars rules...I think both of them succeed very well in capturing the essence and the feel of the six movies(the OT especially), if not the EU(a minor quibble, since I didn't care much for the New Jedi Order series and care even less for the Legacy Of the Force cycle just now starting up).

[ValhallaGH]

I'm glad you like both sets. I was surprised at how few differences there are between Ether's work and my own; even for the parts that aren't blatantly stolen (:wink:). We chose different approaches for droids, space combat and the dark side but the essentials of the systems are the same. It still surprises me.

If you'd like to give some input for TSW (as opposed to True Force) then I seem to be solidly ensconced over here, though I (obviously) pay attention to both threads.

[Darkdesigns]

I see that both of you have used Combat Sense as the ability that allows a Jedi to parry blaster bolts. Are you keeping the fatigue roll as is in the Core Book or doing away with it?
The reason I ask is because, I want Star Wars to be fast and fluid and I see adding that extra roll to be somewhat unnecessary. I can't think of a time in the movies where a Jedi looked fatigued from blocking blasters. I've seen Jedi retreat when there were so many incoming that they knew to stay meant tiring and getting hit (Ep1 vs Droidekas).

I know the fatigue is a balancing factor, but in this particular case I think I'll ignore it. After actual testing I may change it, but for now we'll see how it works.

Great job on the conversions by the way... both of you!

[ValhallaGH]

I see that both of you have used Combat Sense as the ability that allows a Jedi to parry blaster bolts. Are you keeping the fatigue roll as is in the Core Book or doing away with it?

Combat Sense is when Jedi begin using the force to become better combatants. This includes, but is not limited to, blocking more blaster bolts than usual (I assume they can do it all the time, their just better at it with Combat Sense up).

And yes, we've both kept Fatigue saves as normal, i.e. make one each time you activate the power (duration of one minute, which means you only use it repeatedly during really long fights).

As for fast and fluid, True20 does that very, very well. Three rounds of combat can be completed in less than three minutes in True20 because there is so very little actually being rolled, added or counted. Even with that extra saving throw every ten rounds, it's a very fast-moving game system.

Edit: And thank you for the compliments.

[Darkdesigns]

Combat Sense is when Jedi begin using the force to become better combatants. This includes, but is not limited to, blocking more blaster bolts than usual (I assume they can do it all the time, their just better at it with Combat Sense up).


Edit: And thank you for the compliments.

I have no problem with that, makes sense to me but I know my players... They always argued that Jedi were too powerful in the D20 version as it was. If I say a Jedi can block blaster bolts "just because he's a Jedi", they'll have a fit. I'll have to make it a feat that allows you to block them or I'll never hear the end of it from non-Jedi.

I'm still torn between Savage Worlds and True20 as far as which can handle Star Wars better. We'll see

Mike

[ValhallaGH]

I have no problem with that, makes sense to me but I know my players... They always argued that Jedi were too powerful in the D20 version as it was. If I say a Jedi can block blaster bolts "just because he's a Jedi", they'll have a fit. I'll have to make it a feat that allows you to block them or I'll never hear the end of it from non-Jedi.

Non-Jedi can block blaster bolts too.

It's just a description of why the blaster attack misses, it doesn't alter defense in the slightest. If Boba Fett were to pick up a lightsaber and start defending himself then he could block blaster bolts too. He just wouldn't be able to reflect them back at people, as he doesn't qualify for the Reflect Blasters feat.

Chewie, Han or even C-3PO can block blaster bolts if that's how you want to describe it; if that's not how you want to describe it then describe it differently.

[Darkdesigns]

I think I've pretty much settled on True20 over Savage Worlds for Star Wars. The one thing I loved about SW was the fact that you could handle large battles rather efficiently and players could control their minions (Clone Troopers, what have you) with ease. Using the minion rules, the same can be accomplished with True20.

Looks like I'll be making those Clone Commando adventures with T20 instead. I have to tell you that I was more than a little hesitant about T20 in the beginning but now I'm fully on board. Besides my upcoming D&D setting, I'm also converting everything for Conan. Love this system!

[ValhallaGH]

You may find the Combat Unit template in the True20 Bestiary to be a big help. It turns 1000 banana heads into a threat worthy of Mace Windu.

[Darkdesigns]

Excellent! The Beastiary and True Sorcery should be here either tomorrow or Wednesday....

[Aazlain]

About the Starship "Defense" stat: is the base 10 already factored into this value or should we add it? e.g.: Does a YT-1300 have a defense of 2 or 12?

Should we add/substract the pilot's dexterity to/from this value?

Thanks

[True20Chick]

As for fast and fluid, True20 does that very, very well. Three rounds of combat can be completed in less than three minutes in True20 because there is so very little actually being rolled, added or counted. Even with that extra saving throw every ten rounds, it's a very fast-moving game system.

This is absolutely true, especially when you're fighting "mooks." A Jedi fighting mooks, with the Skill Mastery feat incorporating Acrobatics and Jump, can take 10 on just about anything he needs to do in combat. You can take 10 on combat rolls against mooks, and the Skill Mastery feat lets him jump and flip around without having to roll either.

[radiating gnome]

Hey -

I pitched a starship dogfighting idea in the Rules forum earlier today. It may not be to everyone's tastes, but the intention is to make it an addon to vehicular combat, based on the grappling rules.

I mention it here only because it might make an interesting addition or alternative to what you're doing with starships, and because I'd love to get some more eyes to look at it and let me know what you think.

I'm done pimping. Here's a link to the thread:
http://true20.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1125

-rg