I love True20, and the community, but...

[barsoomcore]

So I've asked, and been told, by a variety of folks, that they just don't like True20.

I run a lot of games using my somewhat-homebrewed True20 knock-off, DINO-PIRATES OF NINJA ISLAND. People enjoy playing the games, but nobody ever seems to run one themselves. When I asked why, most people included "Don't really like True20" as a reason.

I don't get it, myself. I really found this game filled the exact niche I'd hoped d20 would -- but d20 turned out to be awful brittle and easy to break. True20 feels much easier to futz with, and it gives you lots of fun levers to pull on as a homebrewer/kitbasher DM.

AND it comes with this great community -- there's so much cool design and thoughtful discussion on the game that goes on here.

But I'm considering abandoning it as a platform simply because it seems like so many people have this weird antipathy towards it. Maybe this is a game that appeals to homebrewers like me, but not to people who just want to play the game.

Does anyone else run into this? Thoughts?

[ValhallaGH]

I don't know why, but True 20 never seems to take off with my players. They enjoy the sessions, adventures, and games well enough, but they never get excited about the system.

I still don't know why.

It's one of the reasons I've shifted most of my focus over to Savage Worlds. I really like the system, and mostly for the same reasons I like True 20, and other people get excited about it too.

[oestii]

My group and I are always discussing, and where needed, tweaking gaming systems (including board games). We consider True20 to be a strong beta system. In a half dozen gaming sessions we've encountered a number of areas that we feel needs some work or clarifications.

If I wasn't forced to end the campaign because of moving out of state, I was fully planning on having my group take notes and work to revise the system. I even created a True20 rules site for my players to reference, and where I intended to keep tweaking notes.

In addition to the above, I think that True20 needs some well developed campaign books with strong hooks. Players crave story, plots, intrigue.

[ronbunxious]

On a whim recently, I pulled out all the books and ran a one-shot using True20 and it was a blast, but I realized once again, why I chose to no longer run True20.

I've run 2.5 successful fantasy campaigns with True20. I did start a 3rd but switched rulesets. Why? Because players were more into playing a game rather than playing a bunch of rules, if that makes sense. No one wanted to buy the books. The only reason they opened them was during cha. gen and levelling up. No one wanted to check a rule or see how a power or feat really worked. Only me as Narrator. It was during ruleset switch that I realized, all the work I put into the campaign didn't need the True20 ruleset. Why run something with the rules as written when the players didn't care about the rules? I stopped running True20 b/c players just wanted to play, not bother with multiple rules, and I just wanted to play along, not play accountant.

I've been using rules light systems ever since and it suits my Narrator style and player groups' style so much more. But then again, I like to run games high speed, high intensity for the most part.

Yes, True20 is easier on the brain than d20, but I've played in barsoomcore's DPoNI hack at a one-shot in TO. I was the crazy dwarf, there was a sleeve fight, chicken races and Go Johnny go go go in it. Bloody brilliant. True20 can do that yes, but Old School Hack does it better... without having to kluge and fudge True20 b/c the OSH ruleset is soooooo much more open to on the fly tweaking. I love on the fly GMing. That is how I play along with my players. But that's me.

What drew me to True20 in the first place, was the single die, no Exp to dish out(meant it was more than just kill to "level up" and no calculations), no fire and forget powers/spells and no battle grid required. I love what everyone did for rules tweaks here from the Villain gen to your, barsoomcore, DPoNI ruleset for everyone to use and play. I own many True20 books and 3rd Party PDFs, I even own all 3 Blue Rose, but I don't want to sell them, b/c I still find them useful and fun to leaf through... and I still have a soft spot for her.

But in the end I think this is the statement in barsoomcore's OP that rings truest with me:
"Maybe this is a game that appeals to homebrewers like me, but not to people who just want to play the game."

[Kommando]

I only got to play/GM True20 and Blue Rose a few times. I loved the system and for a time i really wanted it to be THE system. My gamer friends had other ideas. More recently, the niche I would have used True20 for has been replaced by Mutants and Masterminds 3e/DC Adventures. Even mundane and low level games (I like my M+M around PL6ish) seem to play well and the nice thing is, my True20 books still make good reference material.

[The Shadow]

*sigh* This makes me sad.

I have a confession to make, though. I've been posting here for years, but I've only gotten to play the game for a few sessions. It's just not that easy to find games of it. :(

I'm not sure what happened. True20 made a biggish splash when it came out, then the ripples died down.

And I concur with barsoomcore that the game's community is wonderful. The ferment we had with the "Improved" threads a while back was some of the most fun I've had online ever. There are some really creative, talented, and friendly people around here.

[camazotz]

Very new here, and I just recently decided to get back into True20 as a result of the recent sale (I had the original books but got rid of them a few years ago during a move for much the same reasons being described above...difficult to foster player interest).

Personally, I think of the D20 variants out there True20 really hits the right chord for me, and I love the fact that it is a somewhat simpler and more universal iteration of D20 draped on the skeleton of its much larger cousin. It's also loaded with subtle but fresh ideas on the various genres it supports well, which I also love. The question now is how to get players to try it.

One problem, and its a nit-picky one but I think it really does help to explain why True20 wasn't taken so seriously, is that it has a rather dense format and a presentation that (while it works for the economic black and white design) just can't stand out when compared to a direct D20 competitor like Pathfinder. Imagine for a second if True20 looked as good as Mutants & Masterminds, Pathfinder or any of the other bigger-budget glossy full color tomes....as sad as it is to say, I know more than a few of my players will dismiss the system out of hand because it's not "pretty enough" to suit them.

So anyway, I've reached a point in life where I have at least one group I am sure I can con into playing it...and I may hedge my bets by tkaing advantage of the ongoing sale to buy multiple copies of the digest player's companions to hand out as XMas gifts to my game group. We shall see!

[skywalker]

I think the design was meant to be utilitarian given its generic nature. True20 is just a rules set and needed to look appropriate in a fantasy game, a modern game or a sci fi game.

Of the examples you give, M&M and Pathfinder, they both have some flavour attached from outside the rules, either by way of genre or setting.

If you want to see True 20 with such flavour attached, check out Blue Rose. Its pretty much the same text but it looks gorgeous as it has just one flavour to cater for.

[jaerdaph]

This almost feels like being at a wake for True20.

I just wanted to add that I think this community is one of the best groups of people I have ever had the pleasure of interacting with online over the years. You are all a class act of talented, creative and helpful people and I've enjoyed my time here over the years. I got so much more out of my True20 games just by coming here. And although I've "moved on" more or less in my gaming tastes and directions, it was always truly a privilege to be a member here. Thank you everyone and see you around the net!

[cra2]

I have been running a fantasy campaign in true20 for a couple of years now at least.

So while I'm not a true20 sage, I can say that I've given it a fair try-out.

And I'm sad to say that, like others in this thread, I'm having difficulty staying with it.

I have heard it called a good "beta" version of an RPG before and I would agree.
As soon as I started to use it I had to come on here to find a work-around for the damage system.
And I just don't have time to tinker with a system - I want to PLAY a system.

As there are so few true20 modules out there, I find myself frustrated having to waste time converting d20 monsters, traps, spells, magic items and NPCs to true20.

And now a player has decided to become a rune caster (adept's handbook) and it seems to have totally imbalanced the game. He has maxed out his ranks in craft so that he can only fail his craft check on a natural "1". Thus he is able to speed-craft all the runes he wants with almost no risk of failure and he can build a buff for himself or other party members every round, round after round (no fatigue checks in rune-casting). So he's spitting out +3 and +4 bonuses to everyone any time they want it.

Sigh... soemthing else to research and resolve.
Ijust don't have time.
At this point, I'd rather run d20 straight-up and not have to convert/resolve anything.

My reason for testing true20 was to find a system that was simpler than d20 so we could spend more time in-character and less time in the rulebooks. But related to d20 so we could take advantage of the boxes of pre-existing d20 material I already owned.

Has anyone tried just playing d20 with some of the best-loved ideas in true20?
Like dropping XP and just award it based on something else (like Player attendance).
Or like adding on "damage conditions" like the Optional rules presented in the Unearthed Arcana.

[skywalker]

And now a player has decided to become a rune caster (adept's handbook) and it seems to have totally imbalanced the game. He has maxed out his ranks in craft so that he can only fail his craft check on a natural "1". Thus he is able to speed-craft all the runes he wants with almost no risk of failure and he can build a buff for himself or other party members every round, round after round (no fatigue checks in rune-casting). So he's spitting out +3 and +4 bonuses to everyone any time they want it.

Yeah, I think that's why Runecasting is listed as "optional". Its not fully tested like the rest of the system.

My reason for testing true20 was to find a system that was simpler than d20 so we could spend more time in-character and less time in the rulebooks. But related to d20 so we could take advantage of the boxes of pre-existing d20 material I already owned.

IME despite the issues you raise, True20 still runs remarkably faster than d20. I find that sticking to the True20 corebook and only delving into the Role Handbooks for odd cases really helps.

[Mach5RR]

And now a player has decided to become a rune caster (adept's handbook) and it seems to have totally imbalanced the game. He has maxed out his ranks in craft so that he can only fail his craft check on a natural "1". Thus he is able to speed-craft all the runes he wants with almost no risk of failure and he can build a buff for himself or other party members every round, round after round (no fatigue checks in rune-casting). So he's spitting out +3 and +4 bonuses to everyone any time they want it.

How does he handle the damage? To activate a rune gives the caster a hurt condition for every rune he activates. Stack that on Baduin's damage track, and your rune-caster will have knocked himself out by his seventh one. (I'd rule that the damage could not be treated with the Beorc Rune, so that he's not front loading in advance)

From what I can see of the Runecasting, it's not supposed to be as powerful as standard magic. It strikes me as more of a common mans magic, and should only have a couple levels of adept power associated with it. But your world may call for one that is competitive with standard sorcery.