Using Conviction to Manipulate the Story.

[Kendermage]

In the Serenity and Battlestar Galactica campaigns by Margaret Weis Productions, characters gain plot points which they can use to achieve many of the same goals we see in True20 - re-rolls, cheating death, and other such. The plot points also allow them to manipulate the story in certain ways. Depending on how much impact they want to have on the story determines the price paid.

Inconsequential (1-2 points): You find just the right shoes from the quartemasters stores.
Minor (3 -4 points): You remember you brought an extra clip of ammo on the mission stuffed into a little used pocket.
Moderate (5 -6 points): You stumble upon a supply of food and medicine that will last through several weeks of hiding on CYlon-occupied Caprica.
SIgnificant (7-8 points): Turns out that among the all the new emergency recruits, you find a handful of trained half-competent pilots who can learn to fly vipers quickly.
Major (9 -10 points): Just when the Fleet desperately needs it, you stumble upon an asteroid rich in Tylium ore.
Defining (11+): They're transmitting Colonial signals Sir!

The question is could something like this work in True20 or would it have a game breaking effect? If so, how would you implement it in game? Would you keep similar costs? If not what makes it game breaking?

[~HANZO~]

For me it would depend on the setting. In something pulp adventure or such I'd allow it. In a more gritty or deadly setting I would not allow it. For me it would depend on the setting.

So for a setting I would allow it in.
Anything on that list Up to about 5-6 I would allow for a conviction.
Anything on the list 7+ I might allow in a special situation. And not very often.

[Kendermage]

So you'd keep the cost essentially the same right, for example finding food in a nuclear wasteland it'd cost about 5-6 points of Conviction? I completely agree with the others. I might allow those once per campaign tops. In terms of manipulating the story would you allow characters to pool conviction for some of those higher end things (7+)? How about for the lower end (1 -6)?

[~HANZO~]

So you'd keep the cost essentially the same right, for example finding food in a nuclear wasteland it'd cost about 5-6 points of Conviction? I completely agree with the others. I might allow those once per campaign tops. In terms of manipulating the story would you allow characters to pool conviction for some of those higher end things (7+)? How about for the lower end (1 -6)?

No i was saying I would allow up to a 5-6 effect from the chart for a single conviction. But this would be for a setting That was A little over the top to begin with.

Anything on there 7+ seemed a bit too powerful and I would probably not allow it. Or only allow Once in a campaign if at all. Also for a single conviction.

Im not really a big fan of the idea of spending multiple conviction for a greater effect. But that is just my feeling on it.

[bryan.mullins]

The question is could something like this work in True20 or would it have a game breaking effect? If so, how would you implement it in game? Would you keep similar costs? If not what makes it game breaking?

At first glance, I think I would advocate for the addition of a story point mechanic rather than try to rework the conviction point system to serve an additional function. I have been pretty free with conviction in the True20 games I have run, mostly as a re-assurance that I want the players to be heroes, and to let them show me what is important by how they spend their conviction.

This idea of the players contributing in a mechanical way to the story is one I have always been interested in, but I have only seen this type of thing in use in a group a few times. With clear rules, or a good deal of trust between those involved it seems to work well.

Still, I think it is a little much to ask the Conviction system to support this. The Conviction system's loose rules suggest how frequently you hand out points, and how many a hero can have at any given time. Bare minimum...wouldn't some alignment be needed to put the two together? What does the Weis system charge to cheat death, or get a re-roll? I guess to put the two together, you'd want to try and balance the two systems...I'm not the guy for that discussion though, since I don't know the other system. Someone around here is bound to have a good set of suggestions.

>WBM

[iwatt]

This idea of the players contributing in a mechanical way to the story is one I have always been interested in, but I have only seen this type of thing in use in a group a few times. With clear rules, or a good deal of trust between those involved it seems to work well.

The framing and weaving mechanics from Caliphate Nights allow for some player control over the setting. They're not the same thing as what the OP posted about, but you might want to take a look at them.

[barsoomcore]

Count me in the camp that thinks Conviction isn't really best used for this purpose.

When I first put together the rules for DINO-PIRATES OF NINJA ISLAND, I had a Minor Declaration use for Conviction whereby a player could cause something to be true about their environment by spending a point (basically up to the 5-6 level on the scale in the OP). I took it away because I realized it actually limited the players' inclination to contribute to CREATING the world around them. Players felt that if they made a suggestion (like "Hey, some of these guys might be trained pilots, right?"), they would be penalized a Conviction point.

So instead I really just run my games with the notion that players can come up with ideas like this all the time, and that they have a great deal of control over their environment and over the direction of the story. I don't want anything that inhibits their inclination to get creative on a meta-game level.

[dataweaver]

I like the mechanic for this sort of thing that was used in White Wolf's "Adventure" line: the character has a pool of Inspiration points, not too different in size to the pools of Conviction that True 20 provides. You can initiate a "Dramatic Edit", which may or may not cost Inspiration to pull off, based on how drastic the edit is: one point for a minor offscreen effect, two points for a minor onscreen effect, three for a major onscreen effect, and four for an obvious continuity violation. You could get a one-point discount to the cost (e.g., letting you get minor offscreen effects for free) if you worked a setback into your edit.

The d20 version of the game improved on this system in two ways: it lowered the costs of everything by one, making minor edits more attractive (although it instituted a "Dramatic Editing Check" on the ones that would otherwise be totally free to prevent excessive use); and it introduced the idea of an "advanced dramatic edit", where each class in the game defined a set of circumstances for which dramatic edits would be even cheaper. For instance, the Explorer got an additional one-point discount on Dramatic Edits when he was in unexplored territory, while the Warrior got a similar discount when using Dramatic Edits in a fight.

Especially with the "Improved Dramatic Editing" discount, I could see adding this sort of thing as a use of Conviction in True 20. However, I'd definitely recommend the sorts of innovations outlined in the Adventure d20 book, in part to address the issues that barsoomcore raised about player unwillingness due to value of Conviction: going back to the original post, lower the costs considerably: 1-2 should become 0; 5-6 should become 1; 7-8 should become 2; 9-10 should become 3; and 11+ should become 4+. Discounts should be available if you pair the change with a self-imposed setback (you escape the hallway firefight to find yourself trapped in a garbage incinerator; out of the frying pan, into the fire) or if the change is directly supportive of your Role (or better yet, in a game using the optional rules from Fantasy Adventures, your Heroic Archetype). In the latter case, your Archetype level might determine how much of a discount you get, with paragons of a given archetype being able to pull off even Defining Changes (the 11+ range in the original post) with relative impunity.