Expert and adept's Handbooks and Tr20 Revised.

[Nightshade]

I'm thinking of picking up the first two (and the Warrior's Handbook) when the latter comes out, and wondered what people's opinions of them on here are (I'm going to look around for reviews too, but this is sort of the sun-source here).

Also, how significant are the changes in Revised? Is it much more than just the first version with the errata?

[Khantalas]

Revised Edition removes the settings in the book and replaces them with True20 Companion. And I think it incorporates errata.

[Nightshade]

Revised Edition removes the settings in the book and replaces them with True20 Companion. And I think it incorporates errata.

Ah. So if you've got the Companion and the errata, it doesn't sound like there's an overwhelming need to get it.

[Steve Kenson]

Ah. So if you've got the Companion and the errata, it doesn't sound like there's an overwhelming need to get it.

Quite true.

[True20Chick]

True20 Revised is basically a second printing.

The first run sold out completely, so for the second run, they dropped the sample settings (since most already have their own published books now anyway) and subbed in the Companion. Aside from including the collected errata and clarifications, that's the only major change from the hardback.

[Nightshade]

Thanks for all the answers on Revised, folks. Now, anyone care to chime in an opinion on the Handbooks (well, except you Steve, you might be just a little biased. )

[ValhallaGH]

(well, except you Steve, you might be just a little biased. )

Hardly. It's not like he wrote any of them.

[Nightshade]

(well, except you Steve, you might be just a little biased. )

Hardly. It's not like he wrote any of them.

It was intended to be a joke, but I have to point out he's the line developer whether he wrote them or not, so his specific authorial contribution isn't the only issue.

[Razuur]

I feel that the Adept's handbook is a must have if you are going to use Magic in your campaigns. It pretty much had everything I needed at the depth I needed.

my 2 cents.

Razuur

[barsoomcore]

I got both at GenCon and the Adepts is definitely the higher value. The ritual magic rules are straightforward and seem playable, and no matter what sort of game you're running, there's probably a few powers in there you'll want to include. And the supernatural items rules will probably find use in most campaigns.

The Experts is not so valuable. There's a HUGE array of feats that are all nested in just the way True20 isn't, and most of them are really things that I would rather just rule on the spot. There's tons of feats that let you run social groups, which I can't imagine ever using, and a bazillion feats that offer variant ways to screw people up with your Sneak Attack, or your Feint, or whatever. I dunno, it seems against the spirit of True20 to me. I like the freewheeling nature where if a player wants to confuse an enemy so much he gets a penalty on his Dex, he just needs to roll high and give me a good rationale, rather than taking Entangling Feint (which requires Diversionary Feint, which requires Beguiling Feint, which requires Dazzling Feint, which requires Improved Feint). Likewise, the proliferation of challenges and uses for skills doesn't really add much for me. I don't need rules to use Survival for making, finding and reading trail signs -- I can make that up on the fly.

And the equipment list includes "Juggling Equipment".

I don't think I could have done a better job -- I just don't think there's really a book in the Expert, frankly. And maybe some folks are looking for this sort of thing and it's just me, but this book really didn't bring me much value.

My advice is to get the Adepts book but not bother with the Experts.

[Kendermage]

Has anyone went through and made a more user friendly list of the feats from the Expert's Handbook?