Aldea & Ravenloft (Black Rose)

[Web Warlock]

Hello all!

My name is Tim Brannan and I have been a long time lurker here. I came to True20 via Blue Rose and Blue Rose via the cover art. I love Stephanie Pui-Min Law’s work. I had the chance to meet her and Steve at GenCon this year and of course I forgot to bring my books for them to sign.

Anyway.

I have been playing D&D and other games since about 1979. My favorite is genre is horror, but there is something I really, really like about Blue Rose. I love strong female characters, MZB is one of my top 10 favorite authors, I prefer to play humans (never much into the other fantasy races, except for people that had Sidhe blood in them from generation back) and John Snead is a fantastic game designer.

Despite all of this though, my first love is still Gothic horror and horror RPGs. I have the same login over at the Atomic Think Tank, so you might know I am really into horror.

So I have had this idea, blasphemous as it sounds, to mix in Ravenloft with Blue Rose. I wanted to cast a shadow of Aldea, something is not right any longer. The Queen still holds court, lovers still walk hand in hand, and there are still adventures to be had.

So here are my questions.
Has anyone tried this? In particular I am looking for theme (how did you do it? Did the mists of Ravenloft creep in?) and mechanics (using True20 or d20?).

For me I want to use True20. I like d20, really, but Aldea and Blue Rose without True20 does not seem to make any sense to me. For theme, I want to do this a few dozen years in the future. Our Queen is older, a little sadder (ok I am totally going to rip off Victoria here, but it’s that Gothic fiction thing again), but still the sovereign; impartial and fair.
My initial thought was to have Sayvin perform some great and tragic betrayal and seal it with the blood of Jaellin’s beloved allowing the Dark Powers of Ravenloft to enter the realm, but that seemed too clichéd even for me. Yet, I still might make it work.

Then there is the issue of what happens to lands pulled into Ravenloft and I didn’t like that idea for Aldea. So instead I was thinking that Ravenlofts lands would creep into Aldea. So somewhere past the Bitterfang Mountains lie new lands with names like Barovia, Darkon, and Mordent.

Anyone have some thoughts to throw my way? I am not trying to do a “True Ravenloft” but rather “Black Rose”.

Thanks!

ETA: Changed the heading to better reflect these posts.

Tim

[calibur1]

I don't have much to contribute, but Blue Rose does horror beautifully. Being more focused on interaction rather than dungeon delving, you'll certainly see what I mean. The lack of hit points will keep the PC's mortal, even at higher levels. And the corruption system works well into that Ravenloft genre. I'd suggest picking up the BR Companion, if you haven't already. As for the setting; it looks like you have a good start there. I believe you're going to be pleasantly surprised with the results.

[Web Warlock]

I am a completest, so I bought everything Blue Rose. And I agree, I think I am going to be surprised.

I might run a few "Black Rose" games to see how the feel is. I'll need to see how I can get the Ravenloft coruption to mix nicely with BR conviction (I think it will).

With my current 6+ year Unisystem game coming to an end I really wanted to do something very different. Blue Rose feels like a dreamscape to me. Like a half-remembered land. I have enve yoyed with the idea of dual stating up all the players characters as modern Unisystem and Romantic Fantasy Blue Rose/True 20 and have them try to figure out which characters are "real" and which ones are the "dreams" of the first set.

Tim

[Web Warlock]

Still playing around with this "Black Rose" idea.

Does anyone know where I can get some more information on the world?

I have the "World of Aldea" sourcebook and it is great really. But I'd like to hear some other points of view. Even if it is a review.

Thanks!

Tim

[BobSlaughter]

Still playing around with this "Black Rose" idea.

Does anyone know where I can get some more information on the world?

I have the "World of Aldea" sourcebook and it is great really. But I'd like to hear some other points of view. Even if it is a review.

Thanks!

Tim

Be sure to go a read some of the archived posts on the original Blue Rose forum http://bluerose.greenronin.com/forum. There was lots of discussion about the world of Aldea and variants. When they locked it down and moved over here, most of the talk and momentum was around True20. But there are some very interesting discussions over there!

[Web Warlock]

I may have to google search it then, the old forum is locked down when I try to get in.

BUT if I find anything I'll report back here about it!

Thanks for the tip. I now have some investigation to do.

Tim

[Web Warlock]

I did not have much success with the old forum either looking in Google's cache or Archive.org.

So I searched here and found some good tidbits on True20 + Ravenloft.

Here is a forum on "True Ravenloft", something to get me started on ideas. http://true20.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=20208

And here is one where Strahd was converted, http://true20.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9233

But I think I want to come at this from a different point of view.

Why has Aldea and Ravenloft "merged"? Or were they always together?
If they merged what was the catalyst? Why now?
What is the effect on the populace with this new influx of evil and dread?

I think then I want to get my story correct first and then figure out the hows and the whys and then finally moving on to mechanics.
AND THEN determine if I even get the effects or the feeling I want here.

For the record, I think both worlds are perfectly fine on their own. I will just nevr have the time to play them on their own.

Tim

[bryan.mullins]

There is some correlated material from both settings that can give you a few connections. The Romers and the Vistani for example. The two settings might be neighbors in the demi-plane suburbs with some kind of cross influence, or have a mirror realm relationship. I've only just begun skimming the BR books, but isnt there some background in the myth you could replace or alter that would allow the dovetail of the two realms?

Shadow, for example might be where the Exarchs of Shadow have created Ravenloft in mockery and envy of Aldea. The Dreadrealm could be populated by souls who have slipped out of the grasp of the great wheel of reincarnation (seeking to live forever rather than submit to the cycle, or breaking some other taboo, a pact with the Exarchs perhaps?) and thus into the grasp of the exarchs (Dark Powers) and their children, the dark lords.

In typical jealous fashion the Dark Powers cloister their little vanity away and torture and try the souls that they have stolen. Their children the Dark Lords of each realm are kept in ignorance of their situation occupied with their various (I dont know the plural of "pathos" pathoi? pathoses?)...problems.

You can start to shake things up from there if the Shadow Gates pass through between Aldea and Ravenloft. If one of the truely powerful Dark Lords thought they might be able to "escape" their realms what wouldn't they do to get that taken care of?

Thats kind of sloppy and off the cuff, but you get where I'm going with it. I love the idea and can't wait to hear what you come up with!

>WBM

[Web Warlock]

I like your idea of Ravenloft being a dark mirror of Aldea. Plus I was thinking that the Exarchs of Shadow were the same as the Dark Powers of Ravenloft.

One of the things I have wanted to do is bring Ravenloft out of "mists" and into a real world. Yeah I know that looses someof what makes Ravenloft unique, but I also like the idea of "horror is everywhere" and not needing to go someplace remote to find it.

So I was re-reading the BR core book on the history Aldea and I figured out when the Dark Powers first came into the world. They were there in the very begining.

More later, but I think I have something here that I am really going to enjoy.

Tim

[bryan.mullins]

I am enjoying the discussion. What do you think about the 'stolen' aspects? Meaning the Exarchs can't really create, but can only steal and twist to their own purposes? (ala Melchior, und Sauron)

The first Exarch (Lucifer wasn't his name, but I don't have my book near) could easily have "created" or borrowed elements of Aldea in a fit of pique to have as his own plaything. Perhaps by putting his world on the "backside" of Aldea. (to hide it in plain sight so to speak) That could give you "bleed" that creeps into the un-monitored places in Aldea, or places where fear, tragedy, and horror have already taken place. Those spots could be Shadow Gates in a different sense (no ancient ring, but a wound that continues on into the mirror realm)

Just dashing things off as I think of them.

>WBM

[Web Warlock]

To be perfectly honest I have not gotten that far yet!

But I am working under the basic premise that Shadow can not be created with out Light, so yeah that works.

Tim

[Web Warlock]

More Ideas

- The Races and other Groups
Humans are humans and remain untouched.

I plan to keep Sea Folk for now, but given my Lovecraftian background I will certainly introduce some dark spawn that plauges them. Something like the Shadows out Innsmouth or something.

Night People are the easiest to deal with since their creation is basically to fill that game playing niche of half-orcs. But they also serve other purpsoses as well, as a constant reminder of the dangers of dark magics and in the case of good and noble Night People, to remind the players and characters that you cannot judge a person by their birth. In all these regards they are nearly identical to the Ravenloft Calibans.

Both games describe these ersatz Half-Orcs much in the same manner. They are products of dark sorcery; they are feared, hulking brutes. I will use the Night People racial modifiers from the BR Core and the backgrounds of both races into one since there is no conflict between them.

Roamers will be replaced by the Vistani from Ravenloft. There is just so much information on the Vistani that it makes sense to use them in place of the Roamers. I will keep the Roamer name, that is what native Aldeans still call them. I will still use most of the information on Roamers from the World of Aldea book, in particular the sayings. Where they contradict is simple. The Vistani are a large group with many Tasques, something that is true for one in not true for the other. Or true depending on where they are. Or, let’s face it, neither group is very forthcoming with information to the giorgios. I have to decide whether or not to use the “Half-Vistani” race. In the Vistani lore there is ample evidence that these children are different than their full blooded cousins. And not using them robs me of a plot device where a young half-blooded Vistani goes on an epic quest to discover “her father’s people” and ends up discovering herself instead. Plus I love the Tarot work on backgrounds. So I will see if it can be adapted to use the Tarokka deck. Maybe when adventures get ready to go on their first epic quests a Vistani vardo comes to town and reads their fortunes to them (using the Ravenloft rules) and then shows them their character (Blue Rose rules).


Vata are still more or less Elves, or more to the point, the Sidhe of Aldea. Ravenloft has elves and half elves, but not a lot of them. My solution then is to go with Blue Roses’ idea and have all the Elves (Sidhe, Vata) be extinct. I have not decided with domains to pull in, but I have figured out that the Ravenloft Domain of Sithicus was the last Vata/Elf country before they were destroyed. Now it is a sad, haunted land.
I might remove the Vata’an and Vata’sha as races and instead use a feat to represent “Vata Touched”. Still thinking about that one really.

Dwarves, Halflings and Gnomes exist as rumors or fairy tales only. They might have existed somewhere in the past, but no longer. Or they may have only been fairy tales.

Tim

[Web Warlock]

Location

This is the one I am still struggling with.

My first plan to to place The core of Ravenloft (or what domains I will use) south and west of the Shadow Lands. Seems appropriate. This would make Jarzon and Darkon neighbors.
This brings up an interesting point. Do I really need Darkon when I have Rezea? Both are very similar and are ruled by a Lich King. Rezea works better with the Blue Rose world, but Darkon has a history in Ravenloft as well. Plus and sorry to the BR designers, Azalin Rex is much cooler than Jarek.

I have also considered putting the whole lot below the equator, but I have to read about the weather of the various places and figure out how that would work.

This also brings up one other point. IF I do this it puts Aldea as a single beacon of light more or less surrounded by darkness. Is that the game I want? I am not sure yet.

Tim

[Web Warlock]

Dark Lords

Once I figure out what domains will remain I have to tackle Dark Lords.

Dark Lords are not going to be prisoners of their domains anymore. This is so that they can have a larger role in the affairs of the world. Plus can you imagine how your players will feel when their characters have returned to their home only to find their beloved Queen dancing with Count Strahd Von Zarovich?

But the Dark Lords will not get free reign either. With their supernatural power diminished (magic in generally will be weaker in this world) they will need to fall back on the things that made them prisoners in the first place; guile, tenacity, backstabbing and ruthlessness. In the case of some this means a second round of cuts. Some Darklords just won't make it; either as a good candidate for placement in Aldea or through the cunning of their foes.

Tim

[Web Warlock]

I picked up the new Adept book last night so I am going through that as well.

I need to brush up on more of my True 20 till I can figure out how to best merge these two.

The Necromancer of the Adept book has my eye as does the Witchcraft section.

Lots to digest.

Tim