Also, I bet a True20 supplement akin to Savage Species would be an instant best seller.
True20 Adventure RoleplayingTrue fun, true excitement, true adventure: True20! Determining Level LagModerator: The Mod Squad
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This is all good stuff and I've bookmarked the thread for when my grasp of the True20 rules is a little bit stronger.
Also, I bet a True20 supplement akin to Savage Species would be an instant best seller. Jaerdaph Baeloss
Actually, using the companion it wouldn't be too hard to break the whole thing down into a point buy approach. Just assume 5 points per level and price normal roles at 5 points per level. That means when progressing in normal roles you can ignore these points. But if you had a weaker role like the giant at 3/level you could buy them at a faster rate. If you have some left over points after finishing the progression you could let the player balance it out by trading 1 point for a bonus feat or 4 skill ranks.
... this is exactly what I posted a page back ... and then made an example of with the ogre
I'm aware of your example, I was just expanding on it. In the example, you assume that the levels required comes out to (creature level * creature role point value / 5) for a total of 2.4 before level lag. The thing is you then need to round up (to 3 levels) and loose about a half level worth of effectiveness. That's not too bad overall, I was just posting a variant that works around that.
For example, lets say characters get 5 traits every time they gain a level. Now let's say the cost in trait points to gain a level in a given role is based on the point totals from True20 companion. In the Ogre example, this means it would cost 12 points (3 pt role * 4 levels) to buy the full Ogre progression. It would take 3 levels to get that many points. So far, everything matches with you earlier example. The thing is using this approach I'd have built up 15 trait points over 3 levels, so once I spent the 12 points for my racial levels I'd still have 3 trait points left. I then suggested letting the player trade in these left over points for 1 feat of 4 skill ranks per trait point. In effect, this option simply provided a bit more fine tuning by letting the player gain some benefits for the half-level "lost" in the previous example. I just wanted to point out that this was an option. Besides, I figured a little example of how those so inclined could use a points per level approach might appeal to some folks.
Sorry, now I understand what you meant. That's a bit more complicated than I was aiming at though. Not sure if I want to go to all that trouble, since I'm naturally lazy 
I was trying to use the work done by True20Chick, and couple it to a better estimate of the power of monster levels. Your approach probably requires more input from the player.
OK, so as no one is going to comment on the accuracy of the half ogre, I think it's time to start the trait pricing. I'll post a list of traits and we'll see how to price them.
Ability Loss Alternate Form Amphibious Blindsense Blindsight Breath Weapon Change Shape Constrict Create Spawn Damage Reduction Darkvision Death Attacks Dependant Disease Engulf Etheralness Fast Healing Fear Flight Frightful Presence Gaseous Form Gaze Immunity Invisibility Light Senistivity Liquid Form Mimicry Paralysis Persistent wound Petrification Poison Pounce Powerful Charge Powers Rake Ray Regeneration Resistance to Energy Scent Sensitivity Sonic Attacks Supernatural Immunity Supernatural Resistance Summon Swallow Whole Tentacles Trample Tremorsense Vulnerable to Energy This is the list of traits from the Bestiary. Time to get our hand's dirty, so let's start the pricing. I think the simplest thing is to first generate a ranking of these traits, in terms of power. [/b]
OK, I'll continue with the monster equivalencies:
Construct Mindless: 5/1.75 or aproximately 3 Monster Levels per Role Intelligent: 5/2.75 or aproximately 2 Monster Levels per Role Dragon The pricing will depend on how we handle Power acess: If we consider they have only broad/narrow access to powers: 5/8 or 5/7.5 or aproximately 2 Monster levels equal to 3 Heroic Roles. If we assume it's Unlimited Access: 3 monster levesl will be equal to 5 heroic roles. Elemental: Assuming they have narrow access to powers, the cost becomes 5/5 or 1 Elemntal level is equal to 1 Heroic level. Mosntruous Humanoid: By the RAW, Assuming they have narrow access to powers, the cost becomes 5/6.25 or 4 MH levels are equal to 5 Heroic levels. What raises the MH cost is the full access to all feat categories as well as the power progression. I would actually treat iit somewhat different, in the sense that most MH types stick to one archetype (adept/warrior/expert). In that case, the mosnetr won't require full feat access to other categories, and won't require a power progression Power using MH: 5/5.25 or roughly 1 to 1 ratio Non Power using MH: 5/4.25 or 7 MH levels equal to 6 Heroic Roles Ooze Mindless: 5/1.75 or aproximately 3 Monster Levels per Role Intelligent: 5/2.75 or aproximately 2 Monster Levels per Role Outsider The same as Dragons: If we consider they have only broad/narrow access to powers: 5/8 or 5/7.5 or aproximately 2 Monster levels equal to 3 Heroic Roles. If we assume it's Unlimited Access: 3 monster levesl will be equal to 5 heroic roles. Plant Mindless: 5/1.75 or aproximately 3 Monster Levels per Role Intelligent: 5/2.75 or aproximately 2 Monster Levels per Role Supernatural Beast The same issues as Monstruos Humanoids. I'd use the same differeantiation in this case (Power using and Non power using). Undead Mindless: 5/1 Intelligent: 5/4.5 if using Fast/Narrow and 5/5 if using Fast/Broad. That would make undead equivalent to 1/1 aproximately Vermin Mindless: 5/2 Intelligent: 5/3.5 or roughly 3 mosnter levels equal to 2 Heroic roles
Good thread. So, is the table (made by chick) in the 1st page almost "definitive"?
Last edited by Lord Lance on Mon May 14, 2007 4:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
as a sidenote, i was crunching the numbers for save progressions given in the Companion. i won't bore you with solving simultaneous equations with multiple variables, but the costs for the various save progressions work out if a single good save costs 1/6 of a point, a medium save 1/12 of a point, and a normal save -1/12 of a point.
(so 1 good save and 2 normal saves = 0 points; 3 medium saves = 1/4 (0.25) of a point; 2 good and 1 normal = 1/4 of a point. the only one that doesn't work out exactly is 2 medium and one normal; it should cost 1/12 of a point, but we can say that was rounded down to 0.) at these prices, three good saves do indeed cost 1/2 point.
Thought this thread had gone the way of the dodo...
Nice to know the 3 good saves was priced correctly. 
Now, what needs to be dones is to assign traits some cost. Maybe I'll get to it during the week, but if anybody has any ideas, you're more than welcome to give it a shot.
Out of curiosity...what do you do when level lag is a fraction of a whole number like .25 or .5, round up/down as the numbers dictate?
Okinaka: Planetary Wilderness
I eyeball it, using my gut jusdgement on it.
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