Differences between BR and T20

[Ragwaine]

Did any really important aspects of the Blue Rose game mechanics get changed with the release of the T20 rule book?

As I mentioned in another post, I don't have the T20 stuff and I'm just using the BR and BRC for the game mechanics. Do I really need the T20 book?

[Rubio]

BR adds STR bonus to melee attack rolls.
T20 adds Dex bonus to melee attack rolls.

BR armor makes you tougher to hit.
T20 armor gives you bonuses to toughness save.

BR has a scaling toughness (i.e: higher level -> better toughness)
T20 has a relatively set toughness

There's probably more, but that's what occurs to me off the top of my head.

[Ragwaine]

Thanks. So do you think those changes were made to improve the system or that they apply more to use with other genres?

Has anyone said (Mr. Kenson in particular), "If you're playing Blue Rose you should use the T20 rules now instead because they make more sense?"

[Klaus Æ. Mogensen]

I'm just starting a BR campaign, and I have chosen to use some, but not all T20 rules changes (like you, I don't have the T20 book, but I have picked up some of the changes through the forum).

- I have changed light melee weapons to be Dex-based (also natural weapons and non-light weapons that can be used with Weapon Finesse), but have kept the heavier weapons Str-based (else Str would be too uninteresting, I felt).

- I let armor add to Tougness saves rather than Dodge, but have kept the Tougness level progression (or Warriors would lose one of their major advantages).

- I have introduced a Str-based Parry (a loan from T20) as an alternative to the Dex-based Dodge. So if you are defending, you can choose between parrying (Str bonus to defense, melee only) and dodging (Dex bonus to defense, melee and ranged). I have also ruled that shields add to parry, not dodge (except versus missiles, where you can use the shield bonus instead of your Dex bonus).

I have made some other changes, some to streamline, some to add complexity where I thought it was needed. However, these changes haven't really been tested yet, so I don't know how good they will work.

- Klaus

[Ragwaine]

Yes, I talked to my players about the str/dex thing for attack and they agreed with me that it would make Dex too important (init, ref saves, dodge, many skills) when all Str has going for it is hit, damage and a few of the lesser used skills.

I have seen the Parry rules talked about a bit here but I don't really know how they work yet so I'm just going to hold off on that. I really am trying to keep it simple. Although it's getting tempting to start adding feats and spells.

[JonathanC]

BR adds STR bonus to melee attack rolls.
T20 adds Dex bonus to melee attack rolls.

BR armor makes you tougher to hit.
T20 armor gives you bonuses to toughness save.

BR has a scaling toughness (i.e: higher level -> better toughness)
T20 has a relatively set toughness

There's probably more, but that's what occurs to me off the top of my head.

DEX for attack rolls? That's a terrible idea. Why would anyone put anything into strength then? If DEX is going to be the only important combat stat, shouldn't they increase the cost of raising it?

[razorwise]

DEX for attack rolls? That's a terrible idea. Why would anyone put anything into strength then? If DEX is going to be the only important combat stat, shouldn't they increase the cost of raising it?

Hello!

Strength still adds to the damage you cause. A punch from someone with a Strength of +3 would require a Toughness Save of 18, the equivalent of someone with a Strength 0 and a Sword (+3)! The importance of Strength, however, does decrease, depending on the genre setting, especially as one approaches Modern. It's still of use in a fantasy setting, however, such as Blue Rose.

Regards,

Sean

[JonathanC]

DEX for attack rolls? That's a terrible idea. Why would anyone put anything into strength then? If DEX is going to be the only important combat stat, shouldn't they increase the cost of raising it?

Hello!

Strength still adds to the damage you cause. A punch from someone with a Strength of +3 would require a Toughness Save of 18, the equivalent of someone with a Strength 0 and a Sword (+3)! The importance of Strength, however, does decrease, depending on the genre setting, especially as one approaches Modern. It's still of use in a fantasy setting, however, such as Blue Rose.

Regards,

Sean

Hi.

I understand that strength adds to damage, but really...that's not nearly enough. Even in a fantasy setting, you're better off dumping strength entirely. Yes, a +3 strength person will do the damage of a person with a sword, but you only get 6 ability points...3 points in strength is an awfully big investment, especially considering that all you get in return is the ability to do the same amount of damage as someone who spent a little money on buying a sword. Add in consideration for the fact that you won't be hitting as often as someone who invested in dexterity, and well...it just doesn't seem worth it.

A person with a +3 in dexterity has a better chance to hit, less chance to be hit, a greater chance to avoid area affect damage, and bonuses to some very useful skills, like Sneak.

A person with +3 in strength hits harder, but much less often, and is skilled in...jumping and climbing, perhaps the least used skills in any game.

Personally, I prefer the system used in M&M 2nd edition, where attack and defense are separated from strength and dexterity entirely, as it is both balanced and sensible. I guess you could house rule something like this.

[~HANZO~]

Well the good thing is you can do it what ever way works best for you. If you add parry, strength is even more important. Parry works just like dodge. But str adds to it rather than dex. Parry is what you roll against to hit a person in melee while dodge is what you roll against in ranged.

Dodge= combat+dex
Parry= combat+str

So in true20 strength is still used for more than just melee damage. Its a key in weather or not you are easy to hit in melee.

Not sure if in your book that is a far trade.

Hope that helps.