True Force (Star Wars) **UPDATED 09/29/06**

[ValhallaGH]

Good to see you back, Ether.

ValhallaGH... that's a sexy Yoda. It's interesting seeing your "epic level" rules in action. I'm still struggling with the idea of 20+ level characters, myself. It seems True20 can handle the concept better than mainstream d20, but it seems I just lose all confidence in my sense of game balance. How did the character creation process go with building a 24th-level character? I notice that his +34 Visions bonus allows him to (when he receives visions) pretty much automatically know everything about a given situation. Smart little guy.

Thanks! I'm pretty proud of the little guy.
Yes, his visions are a plot device. And when he takes ten on Combat Sense (which he can do) he automatically gets the best result.
The only difficulty with making a 20+ character, using my rules, is figuring out what his rough build is at level 20. That sets his pre-epic saves, so it is important to know which levels were pre-epic. Other than that, he works just fine.

I like the use of the Mind Over Body feat for the Jedi... very thematically appropriate.

I'm glad you agree.

A question on Mace Windu's writeup, though... I'm not sure what I'm missing... does he really have a +8 damage bonus for unarmed attacks?

Improved Strike scales with level. From levels 17 to 20 the base damage is +5. From 21 to 24 it is +6. Eventually his fist will be more damaging than his lightsaber, though his lightsaber will still be denying toughness bonuses.
After watching the Clone Wars cartoons, I couldn't resist making him an unarmed guru.

Exar Kun should be a lot of fun. Can't wait to see it.

Me either. I just need to stop having delays put into my way.

(Nice fatigue tracker, by the way. Do you plan on posting any other, similar gameplay aids in the future?)

Thank you. I do, actually, as soon as I see a need to develop one. I may do one for Toughness penalty tracking. "Okay, that's another hurt. Oh no! A third wounded. I'm not looking good."

[Ether]

Good to see you back, Ether.

Heh! Thanks. I'd fallen a bit behind in some fairly important things (I'm still not finished, but I'm caught up enough to allow for internet "leisure jaunts," again).

On Improved Strike... thanks for pointing that out. I didn't have my book close, and I'd forgotten that it's actually useful in True20.

[Nomad4life]

Again, this is just really amazing work. I hate that I haven’t had a chance to playtest it yet. Do you plan to make any other updates?

[Ether]

Again, this is just really amazing work. I hate that I haven’t had a chance to playtest it yet. Do you plan to make any other updates?

Thanks!

Yes, there will be an update soontm. The document on my hard drive has already been modified from what's on the site (I've worked to clear up some issues with the vehicle combat system, reworked some of the characters, modified the dark side system, and I am still working on lightsaber Form VII...). The thing is, the whole file needs to be reformatted almost each time a change is made.
Meh.

I'll get it up soon, though. I'm nearing the end of my other obligations, after which point, things might move faster.

[Animus]

Again, this is just really amazing work. I hate that I haven’t had a chance to playtest it yet. Do you plan to make any other updates?

From what I've seen of the system, it works well. My group is having fun with it.

[Ether]

From page 1, in case anyone's monitoring the thread...

EDIT (9/25): A new version's up. A number of interesting changes have been made. A "hazards" mechanic has been included for vehicle combat (it's essentially a more modular, controlled version of the older rules associated with the Avoid Hazards maneuver). Lightsaber Form (ferocity)/Form VII has undergone another facelift. While I realize canon appears to establish nebulous "other form masteries" as prerequisites for Form VII, I decided to overlook that to make the form more thematically distinct and playable. Force Lightning has undergone a significant change (it's essentially become a more powerful elemental blast, for better or worse). A number of NPCs have been updated or completely restatted. The Jedi, in particular were in need of modifications to better fit the design philosophy. Yoda's become a monster. Finally, presentation of NPC stat blocks has changed a little, with the combat stats decompressed a bit... I find it easier on my eyes, though it's wrought havoc on the layout. As always, feel free to discuss any questions/issues/ideas/complaints/etc. in the thread.

EDIT (9/29): So, another few changes have been made. I think I have the Lightsaber Forms where I want them. Force Lightning has been powered down a little, as has the suggested Move Object modification. It should be safe to use/print, now. I'll go ahead and bump the thread.

[ValhallaGH]

I have to wonder why your Rookie Pilots are Warrior 3. They only have 3 feats, and you get all of that at first level. They could be Warrior 1 and work almost as well. For proof I shall point you at my TIE pilots, who are 'only' level 3 yet are danged scary pilots. (http://gunrocksgamingrules.pbwiki.com/Imperials#Stormtroopers) They aren't as scary as yours are (wow) but they are still mean.

P.S. Do you have any thoughts on the Emperor? He's meant to be the Episode 6 version, but the Episode 3 version is only three levels lower.

[Ether]

I have to wonder why your Rookie Pilots are Warrior 3. They only have 3 feats, and you get all of that at first level. They could be Warrior 1 and work almost as well. For proof I shall point you at my TIE pilots, who are 'only' level 3 yet are danged scary pilots. (http://gunrocksgamingrules.pbwiki.com/Imperials#Stormtroopers) They aren't as scary as yours are (wow) but they are still mean.

P.S. Do you have any thoughts on the Emperor? He's meant to be the Episode 6 version, but the Episode 3 version is only three levels lower.

Gah! I vaguely remember a an inclomplete stat revision in the earliest stages of the writing, and that's probably where it happened. In addition to what's there, the rookie pilot should have: Firearms Training, Improved Initiative (not even factored in), and Steady Hand.

The rookie pilot is not a particularly efficient build. For a pilot. But I wanted him to be a potentially useful character outside of the cockpit, too, especially as far as skills are concerned. I wanted the archetype to work not just for rebels, but also for mercenary units, basic criminals (such as those responsible for guarding Talon Karrde's interests, at one point), and so on. So, I wanted the available skills to be slightly more broad than typical for 1st level characters. As is, the rookie pilot is a pretty talented flyer, as well as an extremely green "techie," capable of minor repairs and feats of... I don't know, "techiness," representing outside, but related interests. Also, in d20, 3rd is my ideal "starting level" for PCs. I will never run 1st level again.

As to the question, the Emperor looks really good, in my opinion. His attributes are correct (given the 10-point base), though I might consider dropping his Dex some for the Ep.VI version, as he didn't seem particularly limber at all (age is a decent rationale, even if physical dark side corruption isn't ). Even his gait was a little... less than graceful.

Skills look great. You didn't gloss over the breadth of languages a diplomat should ideally have. I also like the idea of Knowledge (supernatural) representing his familiarity with (I presume...?) some of the more esoteric Sith techniques.

His feat list makes a lot of sense, to me, as Cleave/Great Cleave is a great way to model what we saw in Ep. III... Tough seems a strange choice at first, but I can see it making him more formidable than another Defensive Roll selection (and it seems he's all out of expert feats, anyway, so Tough is the only boost open to him, considering his role composition). Lucky's another odd choice, as the guy doesn't really seem too fortunate, nor does he appear the sort to rely on (or believe in) luck at all, but it's not a bad way to spend a feat.

The only thing I find even remotely questionable is the Energy Shaping aspect. I understand it's a prereq for Elemental Blast, and I know we don't see him moving any non-metallic objects in the films, and I know he can use Conviction to emulate Move Object... I guess it's just a little weird to see the powers done that way. An interesting way to keep his abilities within the existing rules for supernatural powers.

All in all, I think it's a very fine build. One thing that just ocurred to me involves the end of Episode VI and the interplay between Vader's attack bonus (+15), his health status (wounded or disabled), Palpatine's total dodge bonus (around 30), and the Visions power (Danger Sense DC 15), but I might have to post more on that when I'm rested.

[ValhallaGH]

That does explain the pilots. Most interesting idea. And yes, with those feats they become very useful outside of their craft.

Thanks for the feedback; I'm glad that most of my design decisions where perceptible and seem appropriate to you.

With regards to Danger Sense and Visions, if the Narrator isn't letting Yoda get very many details then the Emperor can be surprised when Vader suddenly turns on him. Not so surprised that he doesn't Force Lightning Vader, but surprised enough that he can actually get grappled by Vader.
Possibly this has something to do with Vader's semi-PC status? It makes him a void in the future, unpredictable.

[ValhallaGH]

I've got a rough build of Exar Kun up. I haven't done the skills yet, but the rest of him is finished. Sort of. I'm not a Kun expert, so I'd like some input on him. http://gunrocksgamingrules.pbworks.com/ ... on#ExarKun
He's listed under "Sith".

Flavor text will be added once I finish his mechanics.

Note that a 35th level character will have a ton of skills, so that may take a little time.

[William1968]

Also, stress things like taking cover, total defense, defensive stance, and so on. Very rarely did any of the heroic characters just stand out in the open and fire on the enemies in the movies. The stormtroopers stood there like idiots, and you see what happened to them!

Yet, taking cover and things of that nature are a lost art amongst player-characters....

Besides ... stormtroopers are mooks and don't take defensive actions. They are pretty easy to gun down even at a penalty!

Not in any of my SW games...

[ValhallaGH]

Also, stress things like taking cover, total defense, defensive stance, and so on. Very rarely did any of the heroic characters just stand out in the open and fire on the enemies in the movies. The stormtroopers stood there like idiots, and you see what happened to them!

Yet, taking cover and things of that nature are a lost art amongst player-characters....

Good. My PC body-count was getting low.

In reality, it's simply that they haven't seen the value in it. If badguys take cover, and therefore survive longer, then the players will notice the benefits and begin taking cover. Or they could play five minutes of TSW and realize what kind of death rate they'll have if they don't use cover.

Besides ... stormtroopers are mooks and don't take defensive actions. They are pretty easy to gun down even at a penalty!

Not in any of my SW games...

Different styles for different folks. Lucas decided that Stormtroopers are as foolish as most of your PCs.

[Ether]

Lucas decided that Stormtroopers are as foolish as most of your PCs.

Sigged.

[William1968]

In reality, it's simply that they haven't seen the value in it. If badguys take cover, and therefore survive longer, then the players will notice the benefits and begin taking cover. Or they could play five minutes of TSW and realize what kind of death rate they'll have if they don't use cover.

.

Yeah, I noticed that; it's no fun being a PC when they can't slaughter a bunch of ordinaries without getting a scratch.

Different styles for different folks. Lucas decided that Stormtroopers are as foolish as most of your PCs.

Actually, the stormtroopers were the ground version of the TIE fighters, attacking with intimidation and sheer weight of numbers on their side, so the more you slaughtered, the more which came back at you.

That, I wised up after running one too many D&D games where five PCs slaughtered two hundred kobolds with vorpal swords guarding three million gold pieces...how many games was one too many, you ask?

One....

[ValhallaGH]

Actually, the stormtroopers were the ground version of the TIE fighters, attacking with intimidation and sheer weight of numbers on their side

Just because it was standard Imperial military doctrine doesn't make it a danged stupid policy.
WW I is full of illustrations of why this is lunacy, yet that's how Lucas decided wars were fought in his galaxy.

Seriously, you'd have to be an idiot or a politician to think that "not taking cover = Good".

how many games was one too many, you ask?

Why would I ask questions I already know the answers too? :wink