Fading Suns for True20

[Karl Green]

Hi,

Hey! Thanks for your comments there... I mostly agree... my comments to follow...

1. The vorox seem imbalanced. They seem like they would be too strong in combat and totally crippled outside of combat -- the total -6 Charisma penalty is at once overly harsh, and also not sufficient to balance their combat prowess. I realize that vorox are supposed to be combat monsters with penalized social interactions -- but playing-against-type should at least be feasible.

My suggestion would be to reduce the mental score penalties to -1 Int and -1 Cha, and rely on the standard xeno-misunderstanding without additional vorox fear-and-hatred. Then, to compensate for the size, speed, and Strength, I would say that vorox only get 1 feat at 1st level instead of the usual 4 feats.

Hmm seems like a good idea... I had a hard time figuring out how to balance them without a ECL but that sounds pretty good. Lucky for me no one wanted to play one when we started the game...

2. It's not clear to me which ability score to associate with which supernatural powers. Is it based on the tradition (school or path) or the specific power or does each character choose their key ability?

Well that's because when I first read over it I did not see that they got ability scores added in. After I figured that out I just said "Psy =Cha" and "The=Wis" and it seemed to work well.

I also don't see anything about the urge or hubris. One thing to try would be to convert the Fading Suns d20 rules over, as they should still "work" in a True20 environment. I think it might be better to go for a more simplified system resembling the Taint rules from the Mastermind's Manual. I might attempt this as well if I can find the time.

This is another one that I thought about a lot AND I disided to use the Corruption from Blue Rose for both, just changing the 'names'. I told the players that the church, etc had warned them about the curropting influences of urge and hubris... so far only one of them has had to make a save do to it

3. I'm still thinking about the energy shields. My current thought is that they each have an activation threshold of 3 points of damage. Instead of making a check, damage of 2 points or less gets through, and 3 points or more does not. With melee weapons, a character could pull their punch to voluntarily do less damage, but not with ranged weapons. But you could still do Accurate Attack with any weapon.

My other idea is that energy shields always add their Toughness bonus, but they also require you to succeed by the same amount or else take a bruise. For example, you might be getting +6 Toughness from your shield, but if you succeed by 6 or less, you still take a bruise. Mathematically, this means that the shield offers zero protection against bruises, but normal protection against tougher attacks. I like this, because its simple, but it doesn't encourage people to lower their damage deliberately, which was kind of the point of energy shields.

This sounds good and I DON'T like the extra roll to get them to work yet I don't want them always working... I might experiment for the next game...

-- 77IM

Thanks again

[77IM]

How about this for energy shields.

If you fail your Toughness save by 5 or more, you DON'T suffer an Injury -- your shield activates instead, and loses a charge. BUT you might suffer other effects of a failed Toughness save, such as being Dazed or Disabled.

When the shield is out of charges, it stops working altogether -- you lose the Toughness bonus.

Weapons that leak through the shield (like blasters and flameguns) require you to fail by 7 or more to avoid an Injury.

This has the effect that someone with a shield is more likely to take minor damage than major damage -- until the shield burns out. It also allows certain weapons to leak through more easily. But it does complicate the Toughness save somewhat ... I'll think about this some more, let me know how any of it bears out in game-play!

-- 77IM

[Michael Tree]

2. It's not clear to me which ability score to associate with which supernatural powers. Is it based on the tradition (school or path) or the specific power or does each character choose their key ability?

It would be nice to categorize the psychic powers into paths, as well. I might take a stab at this later.

Blue Rose's system of arcana would work well for psychic paths, and it would make sense for each path to be based on a unique attribute.

I'd make Theurgy based on Wisdom, as the combination of perception intuition and willpower fit ritual magic well.

3. I'm still thinking about the energy shields. My current thought is that they each have an activation threshold of 3 points of damage. Instead of making a check, damage of 2 points or less gets through, and 3 points or more does not. With melee weapons, a character could pull their punch to voluntarily do less damage, but not with ranged weapons. But you could still do Accurate Attack with any weapon.

In the original system, an attack could penetrate a shield by a) sneaking under it, or b) powering through it. I like the idea of an activation threshold, and you can have an upper threshold too, with attacks doing damage equal to the amount they exceed the threshold.. If the upper threshold is 5, then attacks with damage of +6 would break through the shield, but only do +1 damage.

[77IM]

I've been rethinking the energy shield issue and here's what I think. The main thing I love about True20 is that it is so simple. Fading Suns Victory Point system, and the Fading Suns d20 system, are both a lot more complex. Energy shields in those systems were a bit complex and trying to translate them directly into True20 the complexity carries over which I don't like. So here's my thoughts.


1. Overpowering the energy shield: I think the normal Toughness mechanics covers this one. A shield gives +6 Toughness but an attack can still get past that.

2. Slipping under the energy shield: "The slow blade penetrates the shield..." It turns out there's already a mechanic for this: Finesse Attack. Mathematically it works out very differently than activation threshold, but the "feel" of it is the same, so in the interest of simplicity I think it should be possible to use Finesse Attack against energy shields as well as armor. That way we don't need to invent a new mechanic. But, it should never be possible to use Finesse Attack against a shield (even with Improved Precise Shot). This accounts for the preponderance of melee weapons within the setting.

3. Energy shield running out of charges: Tracking shield charges makes more sense in a hit-point-based system. I don't like it because I don't think it adds any new tactics or interesting decisions to combat. So I personally would not ever worry about shield charges. I think if the group is happy with tracking ammunition, then they should also track shield charges.

4. Weapons that "leak through" energy shields: I like the way this is currently done. Shields just provide less Toughness against blasters and flame-guns the way metal armor provides less Toughness against ballistic and energy damage.


So the biggest change here is suggesting to drop the activation threshhold for energy shields or any funny Toughness save mechanics and just rely on the existing Finesse Attack rules to represent the shrewd duelist who "slips beneath" the shield. And also a suggestion to not track shield charges, based on the group's preference for detail.

-- 77IM

[Karl Green]

So the biggest change here is suggesting to drop the activation threshhold for energy shields or any funny Toughness save mechanics and just rely on the existing Finesse Attack rules to represent the shrewd duelist who "slips beneath" the shield. And also a suggestion to not track shield charges, based on the group's preference for detail.

-- 77IM

I do indeed like the sound of that... I will probably use it in this weekends game

Simple is what I want after all

[Karl Green]

After some debate with my group I am pretty this is how I am doing Energy Sheilds now...

ENERGY SHIELDS
Energy shields act like armor to absorb damage, but with melee weapons an attack can ‘slip under the shield’ with a Finesse attack as with avoiding normal armor. The DC is the attacker’s weapon damage + defender’s Parry or Dodge defense +3.
Energy Shields only stop a number of ‘Hits’ before they need to be recharged.
Synthasilk can be worn under any shield and combine it bonus. Stiffsynth can be worn with Dueling, Assault nad Battle shields. Assault Shields can be combined with any Light or Simple armor. Battle Shields can be combined with any Armor! Standard and Dueling Shields are Subtle and can be disguised as jewelry, etc.
Shields are considered ‘Impervious’ from any Damage Bonus 3 or less, then the wearer does not have to make a Toughness Save. It still counts as a ‘Hit’, for determining how many attacks an individual shield can take before ‘stopping’.
Falling damage actives a 'Hit', but has a change of burning out the shield (using up all of it 'Hits' as it were); make a ‘shield save’ with a DC of 15 + damage from the fall.
All shields provide a Toughness Bonus +6 [+3 vs. Blasters and Fire damage]. Each shield also holds so many fusion cells. Each cell can be replaced with a fresh cell as a Full round action.

Standard (HITS: 10 [2 cells]; COST: 22)
Dueling (HITS: 15 [3 cells]; COST: 24)
Assault (HITS: 20 [4 cells]; COST: 26)
Battle (HITS: 30 [6 cells]; COST: 29)

[Wintergrey]

Nice! Those feel like FS shields, and are game-mechanically very simple.

[Yellow Sign]

Very nice shield rules.

What about the effect of an area affect attack like a grenade?


YS

[Karl Green]

Very nice shield rules.

What about the effect of an area affect attack like a grenade?

YS

D'oh... I knew there was something I was forgetting... hmm more thoughs...


Maybe something like falling? Also I am thinking that 'sheild save check' should just be a straight 1d20 roll with a DC of 10 + the base damage (from the Fall or the Explosive attack) to see if it uses up all the charges...


OR to make it easy... maybe Area Attack (that cause Toughness saves only) and Falling attacks will simply use a number of "Hits" equal to the damage?? And have a straight 50/50 chance of using up all the charges??

[Yellow Sign]

Very nice shield rules.

What about the effect of an area affect attack like a grenade?

YS

D'oh... I knew there was something I was forgetting... hmm more thoughs...


Maybe something like falling? Also I am thinking that 'sheild save check' should just be a straight 1d20 roll with a DC of 10 + the base damage (from the Fall or the Explosive attack) to see if it uses up all the charges...


OR to make it easy... maybe Area Attack (that cause Toughness saves only) and Falling attacks will simply use a number of "Hits" equal to the damage?? And have a straight 50/50 chance of using up all the charges??

I like the second choice. It's easy and it gives an advantage to the better shields.

[NamelessOne]

Well, Karl gave me the green light to post here a link to the MS Word version of his work (thanks again). I Zipped it and uploaded it to Box.net. Here's the public link:

http://www.box.net/public/9licjny72i

Ed.

[Karl Green]

Well, Karl gave me the green light to post here a link to the MS Word version of his work (thanks again). I Zipped it and uploaded it to Box.net. Here's the public link:

http://www.box.net/public/9licjny72i

Ed.

Kewl dude... thanks

[Acid_Crash]

Dude, this is awesome stuff. I didn't give it a hard read through, but I was wondering if the Corruption rules are in this? I don't have Blue Rose and won't buy it, but I know how Corruption would apply to Fading Suns and if it's not in the True20 version, I think it should be.

[Karl Green]

Dude, this is awesome stuff. I didn't give it a hard read through, but I was wondering if the Corruption rules are in this? I don't have Blue Rose and won't buy it, but I know how Corruption would apply to Fading Suns and if it's not in the True20 version, I think it should be.

Yea I use a slightly modified Corruption rules that are in Blue Rose... in Blue Rose there are certain powers that can cause you corruption and then by your acts you can gain them... I use acts with some ideas found in the Fading Suns D20 and VP system.

[NamelessOne]

Kewl dude... thanks

[Arnold Schwartzenegger tone]

No problemo

[/Arnold Schwartzenegger tone]