Parry and Size mods

[Emperor Norton]

Ok, I'll preface this by saying that most of this comes from looking to run a mechagenesis game, so the idea of characters with different sizes interacting is pretty high.

So, let me get this straight.

Two characters of the same medium size, get no bonuses to hit or parry based on size.

Two characters of the same large size though... get a penalty to dex and combat, and a plus to str.

The combat penalties cancel each other out, and the dex penalties cancel out on ranged/dodge attacks/defenses. But this breaks down when you start doing melee/parry. both the attacker gets a penalty for his lower dexterity, and the defender gets a bonus from his higher strength...

This continues to get weirder as the higher size you go, the more and more impossible it becomes for higher sized creatures of the same size to hit each other in melee.

Any possible solutions to this come to mind?

[ValhallaGH]

Any possible solutions to this come to mind?

Play it out a few times before deciding if it's a problem or not.

It's apparent from your post that you see the math (correctly, in case you were wondering) but that you haven't play-tested it at all. Give it a few tries. Put together a few big robots and have them duke it out for a bit. This will give you and idea of what you do and do not like about the system as it stands, which gives you a solid starting point for creating a fix that you actually enjoy. And knowing what specifics you want to change will give us on the forums enough information to help you craft such a fix.

And do remember, a character using their Parry is not using their Dodge, making them vastly easier to shoot. This encourages changing tactics on the part of all combatants.

Good luck and have fun.

[Baduin]

The easiest solution is to get rid of Parry, and use Dodge only, for both ranged and melee defense.

And if you are at it, do not forget to check whether you do not have any problems with grappling by gigantic monsters - the combined strength and size bonuses can go quite high.

[barsoomcore]

There's already been some discussion on this in the Pity on Parry thread.

I've decided to just drop the whole concept of Size entirely.

DINO-PIRATES OF NINJA ISLAND is now a complete T20-based ruleset without any reference to size (except for some of the creatures, where I haven't gotten around to deleting their modifiers yet).

[The Shadow]

I've decided to just drop the whole concept of
Size entirely.

Wow, I don't know how I feel about that. There's no difference between fighting a human and a T-rex?

I don't doubt that we can improve the mechanic, but I'm not sure about eliminating it entirely.

[barsoomcore]

I share your concerns. But honestly, virtually every fight in every DPoNI game I've ever seen has been Medium-sized characters versus Medium-sized characters.

Let's be honest, the guy with a sword fighting a T-Rex? He just dies. I mean, come on.

For the most part, dinosaurs serve better as landscape than as opponents.

[ValhallaGH]

Let's be honest, the guy with a sword fighting a T-Rex? He just dies. I mean, come on.

Pretty much.
Unless there's enough of a Combat disparity that the T-Rex has real trouble hitting him (not likely, unless you're using a much lower-level T-Rex), and he can Finesse around that natural armor, the guy with a sword is doomed.
Doing ~4 damage, against a creature with a +14 Toughness is a waste of time, and that +13 attack for +15 damage is pure murder against anything resembling a human warrior (maximum toughness +19 [+8 Con, +5 Tough feats, +6 armor; a build that no one ever makes], normal toughness +4 [+1 Con, +2 feats, +1 leather armor]).

[The Shadow]

I share your concerns. But honestly, virtually every fight in every DPoNI game I've ever seen has been Medium-sized characters versus Medium-sized characters.

Let's be honest, the guy with a sword fighting a T-Rex? He just dies. I mean, come on.

For the most part, dinosaurs serve better as landscape than as opponents.

Okay, but suppose he doesn't have a sword. He's got a bow and a lot of arrows. It's no easier to hit a T-rex than a mouse?

[ValhallaGH]

It's no easier to hit a T-rex than a mouse?

Actually, a mouse is vastly easier to hit. It doesn't have a +13 base combat for it's Dodge defense.

[barsoomcore]

Ha ha.

Yeah, I mean, honestly, the system doesn't really produce great results as is, as far as I'm concerned.

For sure, if somebody wants to shoot at a dinosaur, I'm going to set a pretty low Defense for that. But really your best-case scenario with that action is making the dinosaur angry -- you're unlikely to hurt it in any meaningful way.

I just think it's easier to adjudicate that on the fly, rather than worry about applying a crapload of rules to cover every case.

Now, it's totally reasonable to need those rules, in a different sort of game (even one that involves guys with swords killing the heck out of dinosaurs). I'm all for guys with swords killing dinosaurs. But it just isn't where DPoNI seems to have ended up, genre-wise, and so I'm experimenting with just no concept of size.

[The Shadow]

It's no easier to hit a T-rex than a mouse?

Actually, a mouse is vastly easier to hit. It doesn't have a +13 base combat for it's Dodge defense. :roll:

Somehow, that reminds of this strip. :)

barsoomcore: So that's purely a DPoNI thing, then. I was thinking more in terms of the generic ruleset.

[barsoomcore]

I do think that the current Size rules are kinda overkill, but yeah, my change is not recommended for other games, kids under 15 or anyone taking prescription medication.