Running True20 instead of Dnd

[Ryan_Singer]

Has anyone played in / run a traditional fantasy roleplaying game using the True20 system? How did it go?

I can see that the standard 4-person group would be different, possilby something along the lines of:

1 Adept, using both healing and combat magics
1 Warrior
1 Dex-based Expert, filling the traditional rogue role, sneak attacking and dealing with traps
1 Cha-based Expert, acting as party face and using Inspire, Fascinate and Suggestion in combat.

How well does the adept magic system work for a Dndish game? Would it be possible / advisable to import Dnd rules like new feats and Magic items?

In all, I'm asking for advice and thoughts from people who have done this, or considered it and decided not to.

Ryan

[FCWesel]

You simply cannot play a "D&D-ish" game with True20. At all. At least not with the core Truw20 book...there's no spells. The adept in no REAL way simulates the D&D spellcaster, they can just get 'powers'.

Sorry, I like True20. A lot. But, it cannot be used to run D&D-like (as in True20 Forgotten realms or Iron Kingdoms or any other game based off D&D) games with what's 'out' right now.

Which is a damn shame.

Now, if you want to run a fantasy game, you can easily do that, but expect NO spellcasting like it is done in D&D. (Which some folks might be extra happy about. I am not one of them. I wanted ways to do what they have done and ways to simulate more D&D like games. I know it would have been easier to bring the game to some players had that been the case. Like I said, I LIKE the game just fine.) The Adept's powers is more akin to 'superheroes' in no small part then D&D Wizards or Clerics and their like.

So, can you do fantasy? Totally. Absolutly. Can you "True20-ize" D&D. NOPE.

Hopefully the True20 spellbookthing that's coming out in a few months will fix that.

[Jonathan Moyer]

Has anyone played in / run a traditional fantasy roleplaying game using the True20 system? How did it go?

I'm using it, and it's working swimmingly. Check out the "Into the Wilderlands" thread in the True20 Story Hour forums.

[jonrog1]

Change the fatigue rolls to uses/day. Heck Conviction even allows you to use Powers/"Spells" you don't have for one-offs.

Did you play one out and it went off the rails? I'm curious to hear how, because I was hoping to do something similar.

[Turanil]

I have read somewhere about a DM successfully running a True20 campaign in the Dragonlance campaign setting, using the original adventures published for it. It seemed to work very well, including the use of a couple of magical items.

[Jonathan Moyer]

How well does the adept magic system work for a Dndish game? Would it be possible / advisable to import Dnd rules like new feats and Magic items?

Well, I guess to be more specific, what do you mean by a "Dndish game?" What I mean by "Dndish" is playing elves and dwarves, delving into dungeons, fighting fiendish enemies, magic, finding treasure, and, above all, adventure. So to me, after playing and adventure based on a Dungeon Crawl Classic in the Wilderlands (a "standard" D&D campaign), True20 does D&D-style fantasy just fine.

And I think it's totally possible to import feats and magic items from D&D to True20. There might be some conversion involve (because combat and magic are different), but other than that I see no problems. Again, it boils down to what you mean by a D&D style game.

[The Shadow]

You simply cannot play a "D&D-ish" game with True20. At all. At least not with the core Truw20 book...there's no spells. The adept in no REAL way simulates the D&D spellcaster, they can just get 'powers'.

I'm really not at all sure what you mean by this. Simulate the D&D spellcaster? Why should that be a goal? The D&D spellcaster was itself presumably intended to simulate fantasy stories. (I don't think it does a very good job, but we don't have to agree about that.)

Really, if one wants to "simulate" D&D, why not just play D&D?

[Bhikku]

I'm really not at all sure what you mean by this. Simulate the D&D spellcaster? Why should that be a goal? The D&D spellcaster was itself presumably intended to simulate fantasy stories. (I don't think it does a very good job, but we don't have to agree about that.)

I sort of agree here, and I sort of must contradict. D&D has had a lot of influence on fantasy literature; moreso, it has created its own fictions. The many worlds of D&D, as well as others based on fantasy roleplay (i'm thinking of Warhammer as well as some others), represent, to my mind, a distinctive subgenre, generally a hybrid of Epic and S&S styles (although there are many ways to break down Fantasy into subgenres, and YMMV). It's even spawned distinctive parodies like Greg Costikyan's Another Day, Another Dungeon.

Back in high school, I knew many more people who read Dragonlance & Forgotten Realms novels than had ever played in these worlds- in fact I know a lot of fans who didn't even know about roleplaying until they met my or my friends. These folks generally were excited by the idea of playing a game like their favorite stories, but rarely found D&D/AD&D to their taste. I think D&D3e would have helped quite a bit to make the game more approachable, but even moreso True 20's more streamlined system (and so forth) would be very useful for this purpose. But where a specific style of magic is prevalent in the fiction, the players wouldn't necessarily be happy with a magic/powers system that more adequately represents psychic powers and the psychic-like magic common in romantic fantasy.

So i'd say that True 20 can support D&D-style fantasy adventure - a mix of S&S (small groups out for their own gain) and Epic (heroic rebels against the Forces of Doom) quite well, but if you are trying to recreate one of the established worlds, particularly to suit fans of the novels, the Powers may not have quite the right penache. Some conversion may be needed. (The same would be true for trying to play in the style of Elric or the Dying Earth - any of these settings have their own games tailor-made, but True 20 is still a good system for gaming in those settings, even if one has to adjust the magic system to capture the right flavor.)

Incidentally, in the case of simulating the magic of an established D&D world, I'd be inclined to create a power called 'Wizardry' or something, that served mechanically to grant a level of spellcasting (slots, level access, casting check, etc). At least until True Sorcery comes out, which looks like it will offer a good deal of the flash that players may be looking for. (I tend to like a heaping mess of everything magical, so Adepts would get to develop individual powers as well as honing their talent for preparing spells and discoving lost Incantations, plus whatever smorgasboard True Sorcery offers. Yummy!)

[True20Chick]

Does anyone think D&D and True20 could meld well if you used True20 combat and damage with D&D classes and magic?

[saankiip]

I have to write this quickly as my lunch hour is about up, but I would have to agree Bhikku.

I think emulating a D&D-type spell system is something that is needed. Firstly, I think it would get more people to "cross-over" to T20, but also I personally would like to see one.

I am going to be running a campaign in about 6 months and I totally want to use T20 for the rules system. I think it is familiar enough for D&D fans to readily adapt to, as well as being a more stream-lined and a more open system.

The two things I love about T20 the most:

1. The ability to make up whatever character your heart desires without having to justify it or multi-class all the time.

2. Easy and quick combat system.

The one thing that I found lacking with it was the "missing" spells and spell-casting system.

I am hoping True Sorcery comes out soon and has these elements in it.

As for True20Chick's comments about melding T20 combat into D&D classes and magic, I think it would be doable, and I wouldn't mind playing around with that a little, although I do like the class system for T20 as it stands.

True20Chick message me if you want to explore options.

Just my +1 Wealth.

[FCWesel]

Really, if one wants to "simulate" D&D, why not just play D&D?

I'm sorry but that seems just really short sighted. Truly, no offense meant.

Someone mentioned runnng Dragonlance with True20...so obviously there's people out there that are going to try and use True20 forgames that have systems already. Stargate, Star Wars, castle falkenstein and a dozen other games were mentioned in the other systems threads...what they should NOT use True20 because they should go play those games with those systems if they want to play in those worlds?

It could be the fact that someone could like the majority of things about True20 (three classes, conviction, toughness saves)...things not easily transported over to D&D maybe...but still want a "spell-list/spells-per-day/magic missile & fireball" type spells system.

Also...having a use for 10-15 books (I know there's more, that's what I have) with various d20 based spells in True20 AIDS SELLING True20 to folks over all. Afterall, True20 did manage to make it pretty darn easy to get use out of the dozen monster books I have.

But that's just me.

[carpedavid]

You simply cannot play a "D&D-ish" game with True20. At all. At least not with the core Truw20 book...there's no spells. The adept in no REAL way simulates the D&D spellcaster, they can just get 'powers'.

I don't agree with this at all, actually. I'm playing an adept right now, and I'm doing pretty much exactly what you'd expect a traditional D&D spellcaster to do. I'm a priest of a militant church, so I've got Cure, Fire Shaping, and Elemental Blast. I'm doing fairly well keeping everybody alive and, in my spare time, taking down enemies. When I take Widen Power (Elemental Blast), then I'll have the basic equivalent of "Fireball."

All-in-all, I'd say I'm somewhat more versatile than a D&D spellcaster, even though I have a more limited selection of "spells."

[FCWesel]

Well, 'Fireball' is not a clerical spell in D&D. There are a few fire spells (flame strike, searing light) sure, but what you are describing is not really clerical by D&D standards.

I'm curious, how many of these clerical spells can you emulate? What about domains? Turning Undead effects?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/clericSpells.htm

[Turanil]

Does anyone think D&D and True20 could meld well if you used True20 combat and damage with D&D classes and magic?

Someone mentioned Dying Earth. It's indeed something I would also want to try: a light hearted game, in a world with all sorts of dubious monsters, plus magic and some remnants of ancient technology. So, in this world I would need "fire-and-forget" wizards, with typical D&D spells. Now such spells must be converted to the True20 system. Then, the spellcasters don't need to be able to cast the same amount of spells as a regular D&D wizard. In any case, I would create a single list (no difference between arcane and divine), then every time an Adept gains a level, he could choose to gain a level of "fire-and-forget" spellcasting instead of a feat or power. My only problem is that I don't really want to see adepts who mix True20 spellcasting with D&Dish spellcasting.

Or maybe a new class could be added of fire-and-forget spellcasters? There is a need to know what system of spellcasting curently makes for a more powerful magic-user before implementing such a class in True20.

[Strand0]

Maybe one could use the spell lists, level chart, and figure conversion for damages.
I'd think that the Magic-users should have to take a Feat for all the types of schools/domains the characters has. Afterall a D&D wizard can't be cheap in True20 or it wouldn't be a simulation.

Workable? Easy or Hard?

Gee. Something like this might make an interresting OGL product.